Howdy I’m New
COWBOY
Posts: 13
Just wanted to check in since I am new here. How in the world is everyone today?
I got here from a friend that I told I wanted to buy some hard assets, and get rid of some of this paper I own. He suggested I start collecting rare coins, so here I am. My buddy also said that I needed to learn about the market before I jumped in there with both feet and that this website had lots of friendly people that would help. I have been doing some studying the last few months to get a hold of the horns, so to speak, but I have lots of questions. I hate to come in here firing off all sorts of questions, but I really do have a bunch, so would it be O.K. with all you Ladies and Gents if I ask some?
Stan
0
Comments
Go ahead and ask away!
Fire away.
Oh, by the way, don't buy anything expensive until you are quite confident you know what you are doing. The coin industry is full of used car salesmen types.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Fire away with your questions.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Ask away, but if you want to put your risk capital into rare coins, you could very well learn the risk.
The coin market is volatile and thinly capitalized, so when it comes time to sell the question may be "To whom?"
One of the best disclaimers I've seen is on the Tulving site
RISK: The purchase of coins is highly speculative and involves substantial risk. As in other markets, coin prices can be extremely volatile and will rise and fall depending upon market conditions. Therefore, before purchasing coins, you should first have adequate cash reserves and other assets to absorb a potentially significant loss.
HOLDING PERIOD: Historically, few coins have appreciated dramatically in the short term. Therefore, purchasers should recognize that it may well be necessary for them to hold coins for a 3 - 5 year period, or even a 5 - 10 year period, to have any chance of realizing a significant gain.
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
As you might have gathered, it's a "red" book. But it contains much pertinent information (including approximate retail value of) about U.S. coins. It can be found in any Barnes and Noble. As a matter of fact the 2005 edition was published this week.
Chicolini: Mint? No, no, I no like a mint. Uh - what other flavor you got?
My OmniCoin Collection
My BankNoteBank Collection
Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
You have already succeeded in the first step by coming here. It's a great place with
some of the most knowledgeable people in the hobby.
Ken
<< <i>In addition to the excellent advice posted above you might also want to pick up a copy of the "Red Book" or more formally known as "A Guide Book of United States Coins". >>
good idea,but it would smart to subsrcibe to Coin World's Coin Values which comes every month with current pricing,plus you get a great coin newspaper.link
If you're looking for any seated liberty coins I can help you out,send me a PM(private message) by clicking on the padlock icon
-Hayden T.
first off, go into your profile and open the PM function. then send me a message affirming that you don't now, nor do you ever intend to, collect Jefferson Nickels!!!!
al h.
I guess as far as an investment everyone has to do his own picken, so I think I will just go ahead. I have been looking for something real interesting for awhile, where I don’t have to depend on somebody else to make the decisions so I think this is it.
I don’t want to get off into politics, but I am so fed up with these fools in the Capital I think it is time for a man to take care of his own. I guess the last straw was when the news reported last week that the American Tax payer just spent 10 billion dollars to take pictures of Rocks around Saturn. Gee folks the printed money just don’t mean a single thing any more. Rather than pictures of Rocks we could have bought 80,000 homes for people at $125,000 per home and given 320,000,( family of 4), people a good place to live. Anyway don’t get me started down that old road.
So here are a few of my questions, so I can start into this right.
1. How many coin collectors are there in the United States that collect American coins?
2. It appears to me that there are Rare coin collectors and coin collectors that are accumulators, so what is the breaking point for a coin to be considered Rare.
How many coins do there have to be known to be out there for a coin to be Rare?
3. It also appears from my reading that if you are going to invest your money wisely you should only buy certified coins certified by a couple of companies and only buy the highest grades you can so Ms 60 to MS 70 is that right?
I hope I can keep asking more questions as we go along here.
<< <i>1. How many coin collectors are there in the United States that collect American coins? >>
If you count everyone who saves State Quarters, probably millions. If you only count people who purchase coins $100 and up, maybe 100,000.
<< <i>2. It appears to me that there are Rare coin collectors and coin collectors that are accumulators, so what is the breaking point for a coin to be considered Rare.
How many coins do there have to be known to be out there for a coin to be Rare? >>
Many rare coins are not expensive (proof three cent nickels). Many expensive coins are not rare (1909-S VDB cents). Demand plays a much larger part than you might think.
<< <i>3. It also appears from my reading that if you are going to invest your money wisely you should only buy certified coins certified by a couple of companies and only buy the highest grades you can so Ms 60 to MS 70 is that right? >>
I would say that is oversimplifying. You can easily lose serious money buying Mint State coins even if they are accurately graded by the top companies - if you pay too much, if you pay the right price but buy at the top of the market, and/or if you buy condition rarities which for whatever reason have an increase in the number of coins in that grade. Are you familiar with the coin market of the late 1980's? There are some very rare, accurately graded coins which still have not recovered to the level they sold for at that time.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Remember the only dumb question is the one you Don't ask!!!!
Paul
i just got started again in the hobby,pleasure mostly but maybe profits down the road.
I picked out something i wanted to collect and started to buy it without doing my homework,bought some overgraded crap from un-scrupulous dealers on EBAY (coinmovers)that i wont mention,then started doing my homework,lucky for me i got a cheap lesson.
i also found that what i wanted to collect wasnt exactly cheap or easy to come by !
I DO remember the coin market of the late 80's ( so i should have known better) i was working on Walking Liberty half dollars.
The common date MS 65's were selling sight un-seen for 325-350 ea,Today they are quoted daily in the biz section of the newpaper @ 95.00 bid !
Buy what you like
Buy what you can afford
Do all the research possible before buying anything
Dont expect to see tremendous profits (compared to bank rates,nearly anything would be)
i would guess at an average of 7-8% per year on the right coins which should be do-able,youre investment will double every 9-10 yrs.
AND wait till Harley Davidson's stock splits again and buy 20 shares,or buy 10 today for a long term hold,sign up to re-invest the dividends,10,000 invested in 1986 would be worth well over a million dollars today (that can be verified easily) !
10 shares now will run about 650.00 out the door,about the same as a PR68 CAMEO 1957 Lincoln Cent.
I have the Harley stock,i dont have the Lincoln !
Proof
-YN Currently Collecting & Researching Colonial World Coins, Especially Spanish Coins, With a Great Interest in WWII Militaria.
My Ebay!
I agree that coins are not a reliable investment, altho, if you buy the right coins and wait long enough you'll do fine.
Most important, enjoy it. Some say it is the hobby of Kings.
Sell some coins as soon as you can so you can learn what their true value is. You
don't want to find out the resale is less than you think after you've put a lot of money
in the market. Figure mark-ups will mostly range from 80% on very inexpensive com-
mon coins to about 10% on high priced rarities. Some coins will have startling gains
but it is not really predictable which will do well so the hobby is best for fun and meet-
ing people rather than a place to make a lot of money. Prices of many coins have been
running up sharply for the last couple years or longer so there's always risk of buying
high.
Good luck. Have fun.
Free Trial
1. What percent of the 100,000 do you reckon collect type coins?
2. How many collect Dollars?
3. How many halves?
4. How many quarters ?
5. How many Dimes?
6. How many nickels?
7. How many pennies?
8. How many just everything?
What I am reaching for here is a rarity number that I can use to make a formula.
So for example if there were 25,000 quarter collectors, it might not be to smart to buy coins where there would be more than 5,000 coins out there know to exist. Does that sound reasonable to you all?
See right there I was misinformed since I was told that there was several million serious collectors in the U.S.A.
the Hep Cowgirl........
and if you don't start collecting Frankies there will be a showdown at high noon....
and the Kitty doesn't use blanks in her pistol!
So saddle up and search, and let the collecting begin!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I can't answer the last set of questions you posed on the breakdown of exactly who collects what, but I can tell you they all share one thing in common............they collect what they like. If you are getting into this hobby as purely an investment venture, don't! This is a hobby, and should be treated as such. If you want to invest for profit, I would suggest real estate. The coin market runs in fairly unpredictable cycles that even the best can't predict (or we would all be rich by now).
a large number of coins to be a serious collector then 100,000 may not be too far off base. But
if you define it as someone who is passionate about coins and learning about coins and has at
least one coin which is clearly worth more than face/melt value then there are probably seven
or eight million collectors. Sure many of these people fade in and out of the hobby or rarely
spend very much on coins but there are huge numbers of people working on collections of one
thing or another. Most people collect for years before subscribing to a publication like Coin World
and its circulation is getting up around 80,000. This isn't the only hobby publication and it should
be remembered that these aren't quite as important to the hobbyist as they were years ago.
Most collectors change their specialties several times during their lives and there's a large ten-
dency for them to move as a group from one area of interest to another. You're best bet for bar-
gains is to stay a step ahead of them or a couple steps behind. Dealers tend to be very successful
at reaping profits by staying abreast of the market but it is far more difficult for the collector. There
are many facets to this hobby, look at as many as possible and learn what you find appealing.
Many questions have been answered numerous times and can be found on the search function.
Everyone's invited to the open forum if they want to talk politics but be carefull, sometimes we
don't play nice and watch out for the flying lizards.
1. Never, ever, invest in something you don't fully understand.
Since understanding the rare coin market is difficult even for experienced Dealers and numismatists, you're starting with a sizeable disadvantage. I encourage you to rethink your accumulation of wealth strategy.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Here is one more question for this evening.
Like every thing, to make a good bargain, you have to buy at wholesale so what do you all use for a retail guide and then how much do you discount this retail price before you buy?
To the Cowgirl that signed in, a special Howdy, but Ma’am I do not think I will be buying any of those Franklins as I do not see any that there would be less than 5,000 of, but thanks anyway.
You may be amazed how rare some of them are !
call R & I coins and buy Ricks book on 50-70 proof coins for 14 bucks shipped
1-800-753-2646
the first 20 pages are worth it !
Proof
<< <i>So for example if there were 25,000 quarter collectors, it might not be to smart to buy coins where there would be more than 5,000 coins out there know to exist. Does that sound reasonable to you all? >>
I don't think it's wise to use this approach. Let's look at the Seated Liberty quarters. It's a huge series and would cost quite a lot to do a complete set in high grades. In addition, it would take a very long time to track them all down. Therefore, few people are working on such sets. Barber quarters, on the other hand, are a smaller series and even though the high-end coins are pricey, there are probably more people doing that set. I would guarantee there are many SL quarters which have a smaller number of surviving examples, yet sell for less, than some Barbers. There is a much higher demand for Barbers because more people are doing sets. Look at some of the tiny mintages of SL quarters in the 1880s, yet the price doesn't reflect the absolute rarity. The price does reflect how many people want them, though.
<< <i>Like every thing, to make a good bargain, you have to buy at wholesale so what do you all use for a retail guide and then how much do you discount this retail price before you buy? >>
Watch out. Buying perceived bargains is the easiest road to overpaying, even if graded by the big three. An often-quoted saying is "there is no Santa Claus in numismatics." If I have a coin in an MS64 holder that's worth $100 in MS63, $500 in MS64 and $3000 in MS65, what's it worth? Anywhere from $400 to $2000 (I'm oversimplifying to make a point).
If the coin is a $2000 coin and I offer it to you for $1000, you might think I'm trying to rip you off. Your price guide says it's worth $500. If the coin is a $400 coin and I offer it to you for $450, you might think I'm giving you a deal. Both times you would be wrong.
I've read time and time again that people say that the coins they knowingly paid "too much" for are the ones they made the most money on. A coin that is so spectacular that you just have to have it (and therefore pay "too much" for) will have others thinking the same thing when you sell it. The price guides are only a guide, and none of them are totally accurate. Each coin is unique, and if there are 100 coins for a particular coin in a particular grade, they will not all be worth the same.
I don't want to sound overly discouraging, as I notice my replies have been kind of gloom-and-doom. This is a great and enjoyable hobby, and I welcome you to it and hope you come to enjoy it as much as I do. But if you look for bargains, you'll find them. And when the time comes to sell, you'll know why you got such a deal. You won't be happy.
One way to minimize your downside is to get hooked up with a trustworthy and honest dealer who will not overprice his material or sell you low-end crap at high-end prices. You won't get any bargains, but you will certainly minimize the risk.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
There are many nice coins available during some of the major coin shows that I would expect would be a good investment. items such as early gold, in my opinion, would be somewhat safe. Although not out of the realm of possibilities, nice high grade examples do exist but can't be afforded by the average collector. Yes, the coins' value may increase, it may be hard to find a buyer to get the money that you want.
You mentioned when the economy falls, a coin investment would be safe. I would tend to disagree. As the economy gets weak, my guess is that people who invested in coins will need cash and sell their collection. A lot of coins may become available and prices could drop.
Be careful in your investment. I agree that this has some security as an investment, but as in all investments, there is risk and no guarantee.
Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
Jerry
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
Ignore the PCGS daily price guide !
use for reference only,not a buying price.
If you are a buyer,figure 10-30 % of the guide to offer !
Proof
Bob
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
TAKE YOUR TIME AND LEARN!!!
>>
I would say that is oversimplifying. You can easily lose serious money buying Mint State coins even if they are accurately graded by the top companies - if you pay too much, if you pay the right price but buy at the top of the market, and/or if you buy condition rarities which for whatever reason have an increase in the number of coins in that grade. Are you familiar with the coin market of the late 1980's? There are some very rare, accurately graded coins which still have not recovered to the level they sold for at that time. >>
Ditto to this. I have a friend who purchased $30,000 in I believe 1985 for a dozen or so higher grade Morgans and gold coins. This was a high point in the market and when things rebounded with the price of gold dropping his value dropped to $7500 and now is worth only around $6000. Combination of ignorance and poor timing on the purchases and a not too honest dealer hurt him.
Here you will learn (not from me I am still in grade school as a collector) much to help you make wise decisions, be patient and learn.
Rookie joe
Heritage alone has 100,000 people in the base. Companies like blanchard have more than that. Several million is not out of line, but I would not categorize them as 'serious collectors" but instead people who buy/bought coins.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
Do NOT rush into things. Read some more, and read the forums, then read some more. It will be worth it to you in the long run - otherwise you could have some regrets.
Take it slow and easy, Cowboy!