I'm starting to lose respect for ANACS

K6AZ

This ANACS "AU50" 1903-S Morgan is in this week's Heritage internet auction. This coin is unquestionably XF. What the heck is it doing in an AU holder?

JrGMan2004

I'll agree... Circle For the Win!

ss350camaro

I know nothing about ANACS and their history. By looking at that slab can we tell when (aprox) it might have been graded ?

K6AZ

It's a recent holder.

hookooekoo

It's a beautiful coin!!!

Perhaps it's just mislabels

XF 40
Great Eye Appeal
Net AU 50

JrGMan2004

But Eric... I wonder... are you losing respect for PCGS and NGC for the coins they've overgraded? Please tell me the below coin should be in a PCGS-66 holder...

Louis

AU

earlwbollinger

I assume an unscrupulous person could crack it out, clean and dip it to get a nice luster.
Then get a 4th tier grading service to make it a MS62.

K6AZ

First of all, we're talking a very scarce circulated Morgan here, not a common Mercury dime. The 03-S sheets at 230 in XF and 1450 in AU. Apples and oranges.

K6AZ

And by the way, that Mercury dime doesn't look like any PCGS MS66 I own, and I own over forty of them.

JrGMan2004

Overgrading, is overgrading... I'm sure I could find a few overgraded examples of coins in PCGS and NGC holders that have big jumps in grade prices...

XpipedreamR

Holy cow!


Is it possible that their pic/scan is dulling the luster, and obscuring some of the detail?

K6AZ

When you find a PCGS AU50 Morgan dollar like that, be sure to show me.

Wolf359

Based on the number, the slab is about two years old.

XpipedreamR

PS: George...you really need to get over this Merc

SethChandler

Soft over the ear(still a 45), I wonder if it was conserved, would it make 50.

Seth

K6AZ

Is there a story behind that dime I'm not aware of?

K6AZ

<< <i>Soft over the ear(still a 45), I wonder if it was conserved, would it make 50.

Seth >>



Nope. It clearly shows wear on the interior wing feathers. This coin is not an AU.

JrGMan2004

It's a softly struck coin that's in a PCGS-66 holder, that's a 63 at best... now if you'd like to argue that overgrading on a common coin is no big deal, I beg to differ...

K6AZ

And this has what to do with an overgraded ANACS Morgan? For every coin you can show in a PCGS holder that may be overgraded, I can show you twenty in ANACS holders.

So what's the deal with this dime? Is this a no return eBay special?

JrGMan2004

nvm, it's not worth arguing with you...

K6AZ

Well, you're the one who popped into this thread comparing apples to oranges.

JRocco

You can cherrypick examples from any service that show poor examples. True the 03S is an expensive example, but even on a common coin- a mistake is a mistake- just that- a mistake. If I start to see a pattern, like some slabbing companies whose names will be left unsaid, then I can make a major assumption and not look at their slabs any longer. But PCGS, NGC and ANACS all have their occasional blunders, even they would admit that. I like ANACS as well as NGC and PCGS. Could I find a questionable slab now and then-sure. I still look at the coin before the holder, but some holders are consistently more accurate than others, ANACS is one of those slabs. When I look at the crew that grade ANACS slabs I come away with one very strong observation----they are all human.

JeffinMich

I'd say AU-50 on the Morgan is a real stretch. Even XF-40 seems generous.

Fairlaneman

Over grading is Over grading. It makes No Difference if the coin is a common and cheap or rare and expensive. I think that is the point and all TPG's do their share. It goes the other way also.

Ken

K6AZ

JRoco, I can see where you're coming from and will agree to a certain extent. This is why I will not buy any coin without a return privilege, most of the dogs are put on eBay with a no return policy. And there are dogs in all holders, including PCGS.

Having said that, bluders can and do occur especially with hard to grade mint state coins. However, in this example, we are talking about a coin that is easy to grade, and there are several diagnostics that clearly separate an XF coin from an AU coin. This isn't a minor blunder.

JRocco

I hear ya on this one Eric. That 03 appears to be more than a blunder to me also. If I picked up that coin to look at, it would remain on the dealers table when I walked away. That one looks like a really bad call. If those pictures show the coin accurately, and I think it does, then ANACS should get that coin back and honor its mistake and re-slab that coin.

DennisH

Here are scans of two PCGS-graded XF40 1903-S Morgans. The Micro-S was previously in an NGC-45 holder, and has slightly more lustre and eye appeal than the normal S coin. Based upon these, I'd say the ANACS coin would only grade XF40 at PCGS.

kyleknap

Every service makes mistakes now and then, and none of them deny it. Coins are graded by humans, and humans are not perfect. I do not see the point in picking out every single slightly over or under graded coin and making a spectacle of it. If you don't like the piece, don't buy it.

Kyle

numonebuyer

I would have to agree that the coin in the original post is no higher than XF-40. We can argue if is a little higher than that, but it certainly is no AU Morgan.

Conder101

Al I can say for sure about the ANACS slab is that it was slabbed after April 2000.

MSD61

You know...I look at that merc dime and just see red. I am no super, big name collector but to see that slammed into a 66 holder burns me up! Yet my 1917 merc which was better struck, had great luster and IMHO full split bands came back from PCGS as AU55........P-A-LEEEEZZZ! I have a lot of U.S. coins I'd like to see graded however, if this is the performance that the "big gun" grading services are showing I'll just hold back and devote most of my energy to my darkside coins.

dorkkarl

<< <i>I'm starting to lose respect for ANACS >>

when you start to lose respect for plastic in general, then you'll have something to crow about.

K S

razorface1027

Wow...A mistaken identity. Definately XF-40. That's a BIG IF!

100proof1957

Heres a little better date Morgan in an ANACS holder
Guess that grade compared to the subject ?

09sVDB

That coin doesn't look much better than the PCGS VF25 1897O I recieved today!

koynekwest

ANACS has always been a little more liberal with their grading standards than PCGS, though they can be tough with MS65 and better grades, especially with Walkers and sometimes silver dollars.

wjd283

Unquestionably overgraded.I have no idea how that one got out,but it does'nt look good on them.

I think ANACS does pretty good most of the time tho.

K6AZ

<< <i>Every service makes mistakes now and then, and none of them deny it. Coins are graded by humans, and humans are not perfect. I do not see the point in picking out every single slightly over or under graded coin and making a spectacle of it. If you don't like the piece, don't buy it.

Kyle >>



I'm not buying that Kyle. This is no "little" mistake. This is a mistake that causes a $250 to be sold for over $1000. And this is not an isolated incident with ANACS lately, I'm seeing them each week in Heritage's auctions.

K6AZ

<< <i>ANACS has always been a little more liberal with their grading standards than PCGS, though they can be tough with MS65 and better grades, especially with Walkers and sometimes silver dollars. >>



Just a couple of years ago I was a big fan of ANACS Morgans, I had great luck buying them and crossing over to PCGS. But in the last couple of months I have seen dozens of key and semi key Morgans like this that are overgraded, and with coins that have a significant price jump from what the coin actually is to the grade on the label. Something is going on at ANACS.

jcping

I grade it as VF35.

numonebuyer

I have to agree with K6AZ. Graders know when the coin they are looking at is on the borderline of being a semi-rare moderately expensive coin (affordable to most) and a rare really expensive coin (not affordable to most).

This particular thread shows a coin that is certainly not AU. It is just graded wrong and a newbie could easily be taken. Send that coin for PCGS crossover and you know what will happen.

kyleknap

<< <i>I'm not buying that Kyle. This is no "little" mistake. This is a mistake that causes a $250 to be sold for over $1000. And this is not an isolated incident with ANACS lately, I'm seeing them each week in Heritage's auctions. >>



The coin may be overgraded, I'm not saying it's not; however I do not see this as fair grounds for dismissing ANACS as a top-notch grading service. Each service grades a little differently, and that is why it is wise to look at many examples and find a coin that suits you. Don't waste your time criticizing the others, as you can find overgraded and undergraded coins in anyone's holders any day of the week. If you think this coin is off, take a gander at some of the Morgans in top-tier MS68 holders; and we're talking about a lot more than a $750 "mistake" there. You, and most of the collectors on this forum, are smart enough to tell when a coin is accurately graded and when it's not, so what difference does it make if the services miss every now and then?

Kyle

K6AZ

Kyle, people like I who know how to grade don't fall victim to these kind of coins. Unfortunately, there is a growing percentage of collectors that do not know how to grade and trust the number on the holder. And I am an equal opportunity complainer, I've posted overgraded examples of Morgans in every holder. As I posted earlier, I used to like ANACS Morgans. I've seen too many overgraded examples lately to continue to say that they are among the best. In my opinion, ANACS has dropped down to join ICG as a second tier grading company.

lava

The coin does not look au50, but .........

1. you would be hard pressed to find a much worse anacs coin.
2. just as one right answer does not make a genius, one wrong answer does not make ANACS into ACG.

I think for the most part ANACS is good, forgetting this `03-s example. As others have said, I have seen some pretty lousy coins in other slabs too.

ddbird

Yeah thats sad...I think anacs are normally very strict with their morgans. I would guess either someone was smoking the dubee...or its misslabeled!

islemangu

As K6 mentioned the big value spead XF to AU. Doesn't ANACS guarentee like PCGS and NGC so owner could resubmit and get some money back if overgraded?

chiefbob

I think that stinks, especially when the next grade quadruples in price.

My question is this: K6 mentioned that he sees more and more of these ANACS coins in the Heritage auctions. When Heritage prepares these lots for auction photos and descriptions, doesn't anyone there care that regardless of the grade on the holder that it's not accurate? Doesn't Heritage share some blame in this?

Bob

BigD5

<< <i>When you find a PCGS AU50 Morgan dollar like that, be sure to show me. >>



C'mon. Are you serious? They ALL are guilty of this with the better date stuff. PCGS, NGC, ANACS...........

With your example, I imagine the coin has enough luster and is weakly struck, hence the au grade. My guess.

K6AZ

Ultimately, the responsibility falls on the buyer to know what he is doing. The ANA said as much in the decision in the Charlotte hearing last year, that a dealer selling a coin such as this, a ANACS AU50, is delivering what was offered. In my opinion, I lay the blame at ANACS, and when considering their very knowledgable graders, I don't understand how they could make such a clearly obvious mistake.

K6AZ

Yes, I am serious. Show me a PCGS AU50 better date like that.