Home PSA Set Registry Forum

1972 topps Thurman Munson IA PSA 9 on ebay

The SMR is 200

The card is 294 with one day left.

PSA 9 cards usually sell for 75% of SMR from this year.

This card is already at 150% of SMR without the big gunners shooting yet.

Is this a Yankee thing or a set registry thing ?

Comments

  • I thinks it parth the player, part he was a Yankee and part the fact that their are only 12 in PSA 9 with only one higher. Checkout how many people are collecting 72's, if a card has fewer than 15 examples all those collecting highend 72's (ie. those with GPA's 8+) don't have enough supply.

    SMR doesn't really mean anything, it all comes down to how many collectors want the card and are looking for it at the same time.

    Scott Jeanblanc
    jeanblanc@iconnect.net
    Ebay UserId: sjeanblanc
    -------------------------------------------------
    Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    z,

    I think that you're assumption that PSA 9's from this year sell 75% of SMR might hold true for a lot of commons - but the stars are going to be all over the place.

    The Frank Robinson #100 has an SMR of $185 and I'd be surprised if the next one on eBay goes much above $100. The Palmer is listed at $200 and thats another $100 card. Last night - a Bench in Action PSA 9 went for over $500 while the SMR is only $310 (and my $500+ bid didn't even get in because it wasn't as high as the two top guys). The Marichal is listed at $150 in 9, yet I've lost both of the 9's graded on eBay at over $300 apiece.

    All it takes is a Player Set guy wanting the same card (AS BADLY) as a Team Set guy and the sky is the limit...

    So - the SMR might be considered a guide... But, to be honest - its isn't updated often enough and realistically enough to truly be helpful. If you ever submit and receive a PSA 9 on #178 Paul Schaal In Action - give me a call... I'll give you 20 times the current SMR of $45.

    So - you're best bet is to keep tabs on closed eBay auctions. Those are much closer to the truth than the SMR.
    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • Hi Frank,

    Got a question for ya, why is the 178 Schaal IA considered tougher than the 40 Barton IA when there are fewer Bartons?

    Just curious.

    Scott Jeanblanc
    jeanblanc@iconnect.net
    Ebay UserId: sjeanblanc
    -------------------------------------------
    Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    sjeanblanc,

    In my mind (and a couple other 72 guys that I've spoken with) - the Schaal In Action card has received the lion's share of the press when it comes to "most difficult" cards in the set. If you asked 10 casual observers of the set to name the 10 most difficult cards - I'd bet that 8 of them can name the Schaal IA.

    With that being said...

    Since it has been regularly reported on the difficulty - everyone and their grandmother who felt that they had a decent looking Schaal IA has sent one in to PSA. Out of 33 cards sent in to PSA - only 11 have received the 8 (33%). On the other hand, the Barton IA which is not nearly as well known as the Schaal IA has only had 16 sent in to PSA and 9 of those have come back as 8's (56%).

    There is really no absolute best way to say which is TRULY the most difficult - but I honestly believe if people heard about the Barton IA as much as the Schaal IA - that more of them would be on their way to PSA and those pop numbers would rise.

    Just my two cents.
    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • I guess I could be characterized as one of most active 1972 PSA 9 buyers right now, and I can say that FB is right because 1972 PSA 9 commons with an SMR OF $45 are selling for between $30 and $33.

    I was the second bidder on the Bench IA last night and honestly figured I would buy it for somewhere in the mid 400's. Munson is an extremely popular player with a large card following so his cards are always in demand (I recently picked up his regular 1972 card in PSA 9 from a private seller).

    Today I bought a 1972 PSA 9 Kaline for $225, or 90% of the $250 SMR.

    Stay out of my way for the next Bench IA PSA 9 coming down the pike!

    Steve
  • Thanks Frank,

    Man, when you look at some of the commons and their submitted totals, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that these cards would be worth submitting:

    #40 Barton IA 9 - PSA 8's none higher
    #170 Blue IA 11- PSA 8's none higher
    #178 Schaal IA 11- PSA 8's none higher
    #292 McRae IA 12- PSA 8's 1-PSA 9
    #443 Ken Henderson 10- PSA 8's 1-PSA 9
    #519 Ted Abernathy 13- PSA 8's none higher
    #524 Red Rookies 9 - PSA 8's none higher
    #532 Fred Kendall 9 - PSA 8's 1-PSA 9
    #582 Expos Team 12- PSA 8's 1-PSA 9

    When even a PSA 8, of one of these is going to fetch big$$, knowing human nature, the only way that you have so few of these submitted is that they just aren't out there in gradable condition (ie PSA 8,9 or 10). I would find it hard to believe that anyone collecting cards would have sat on these raw, with all the grading specials that have happened in the last year. If you haven't seen the pops on these explode yet, I don't think your going to see it happen ever. Especially with this being as popular a set as there is in the 70's.

    Good luck to all that collect it. EOMint I think you may be waiting a very long time for PSA 9's or PSA 10's of these cards.

    Scott Jeanblanc
    jeanblanc@iconnect.net
    Ebay UserId: sjeanblanc
    ------------------------------------------------
    Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    Scott,

    It actually is pretty funny how predictable it is when it comes to the sale of 1972 PSA 9 commons.

    If EO (Eric Olander - Herbetizer on eBay), Brian Long (PSUINNYC on eBay) and I (outerbankyank on eBay) all need a PSA 9 common for sale on eBay than I can almost guarantee that it will sell for more than $225 (If EO wasn't able to convince the seller from closing the auction and selling to him privately) because Brian's bids (at the low end) can go around $225. Eric will win, Brian will be the underbidder and its a crap shoot as to whether my bid ever makes it in because I'm below those two.

    If only Eric and I or Brian and I need a PSA 9 - 72 card - it will sell for between $145 and $175. And again... I'll be the underbidder.

    But, if both of these guys have a 72 PSA 9 that I'm going for - then I can usually snag it for below $100. Case in point - two nights ago, I picked up card #594 in PSA 9 Jim Beauchamp for $56. The one before that one sold for over $150. And what can I say - I'm cheap!

    On the one hand - I feel bad that my underbids are costing these guys money. But, on the other hand - I'd be willing to pay the prices that I bid if I should win. AND - every now and then - one of us forgets to bid and somebody comes away with a bargain.

    So, bottom line... if any of you guys out there have 72 PSA 9's that are needed by EO or myself - contact EO first - because he'll pay bigger money than I will and then I'll wait for a cheaper version on eBay.

    Steve - I didn't even expect to see you in the fray on the Bench IA - but if you're that determined - I'm sure that you won't be denied on the next one.
    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    I would find it hard to believe that anyone collecting cards would have sat on these raw, with all the grading specials that have happened in the last year. >>



    Scott:

    I disagree with your assessment somewhat. I know at least one collector who has a 1955 Bowman baseball set in raw shape that I would estimate houses at least 40-60 PSA 9's and the rest PSA 8's. Some supercollectors who are in the hobby just for the sake of collecting don't get too much "value" out of getting some of their cards graded. Their collections are worth millions - with or without the slab. With the slab, they have to deal with inconsistency and other issues (this collector I refer to had a very bad experience in grading his 1954 Bowman set), not to mention the cost.

    You have to remember that so many joined this hobby well before grading mattered. The one nugget you can keep in your mind is this: If 75 Honus Wagner T-206 cards are believed to exist (a number that seems about right given various documentation and research) today, only 1/3 of them are graded. And there you are talking about a card that is worth six-figures in PSA 1 Poor-Fair condition.

    Best-
    Marc
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    I'm a bit surpised that the Barton IA is the toughest card in the set. I have that one in my Registry Set and it appears to be well centered and a high-end 8. What's typically the problem with this card?

    image
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭


    << <i>When even a PSA 8, of one of these is going to fetch big$$, knowing human nature, the only way that you have so few of these submitted is that they just aren't out there in gradable condition (ie PSA 8,9 or 10). I would find it hard to believe that anyone collecting cards would have sat on these raw, with all the grading specials that have happened in the last year. If you haven't seen the pops on these explode yet, I don't think your going to see it happen ever. Especially with this being as popular a set as there is in the 70's. >>



    Scott,

    I agree with you when you say that you don't expect to see the pops ever explode on cards like the Schaal IA, Barton IA, Blue IA, McRaus IA, Kendall, Henderson, Reds Rookies, etc. But, I think that there are a number of factors that make it pretty safe to predict that these cards will continue to grow in population at about the same rate for years to come.

    1) Dealers like Baseball Card Exchange and the Baseball Card Kid are still selling unopened 72 material. Any of these packs being opened possibly have the tougher cards. And anything being opened now - the only concern needs to be centering - because quite frankly the cards are going from pack to Card Savers within minutes.

    2) 70's material is still EXTREMELY plentiful and isn't even considered a real money-maker by a lot of big-time dealers. So, dealers are focusing their efforts with the biggest money first and 70's commons are (in most cases) way, WAY down the list. Maybe when the 50's and 60's material dries up some more - we'll get a chance to see more of it from the store rooms.

    3) Grading only encompasses a small portion of collectors. Granted - we're probably the most rabid collectors and among the most knowledgable (under certain circumstances). So, there are a lot of high end sets tucked away in collector closet that will show themselves a few per year.

    4) There are EXTREMELY FEW "students" of particular sets. Most people will pull nice looking, nicely cornered, nicely centered cards to send in to PSA. Far fewer would get excited over that 65/35 centered Barton IA - knowing that it should 8. I know that most 72 collectors start understanding which cards are tough when they reach 90+% and wonder why they're having trouble finding the last 50 or so cards. THATS generally when the average collector really notices low pop versus high pop. When the Fab 5 (myself, Jarvi, Castaldi, Aponte and Downey) built our sets initially - we blundered our way through because EVERYTHING was a low pop. Now that Mike is building his 2nd 72 set - he has the advantage of using all the knowledge he gained from his first time around.

    5) There is still a lot of 70's material (ESPECIALLY COMMONS) that are store away by old-time dealers because they've always been considered too much trouble to drag out to shows and my personal favorite - flea markets! If you come across a 70+ year old card dealer at a flea market with no sign of graded cards in his 30 year old showcase - and you can pull out some loose leaf pages with card numbers on them - you can make a friend very quickly. You can cement that friendship by saying "grading has ruined this hobby" and spitting on the ground. I've picked up some REALLY nice late 60's and early 70's commons from guys like this.

    6) It may be quite a while - but I wouldn't doubt that eventually we'll see all the tough cards in the 72 set with pops of 25, 50 or even 100 in PSA 8. Of course, we'll also see other commons with pops of 5000. We'll just have to see how far this hobby can go.
    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • Hi MikeSchmidt,

    I agree with you 100%, I probably should have qualified that statement to say "anyone collecting graded cards", because that source pool of collectors would be more aware of potential grading opportunities than a collector who keeps their cards raw, or the collector that never plans on selling their cards.

    I myself look for opportunities to make some money, so that I can continue my Ryan collections.

    Hi Dude,

    That's a nice Barton IA!! image

    Hi Frank,

    Great points, being pretty much new to the hobby (three years ago), my perspective is sometimes blurred by what I see on eBay. I don't get to go to Card Shows, flea markets, or even many card stores, because I just don't have or make the time.

    I fully enjoy all of the collectors insight on these boards, I while I may make dumb statements every now and then, I just like learning more about this hobby and sometimes saying something dumb gets you alot of quality information.

    Scott Jeanblanc
    jeanblanc@iconnect.net
    Ebay UserId: sjeanblanc
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭
    To go along with what Frank said, the tough cards in the set will always be the tough cards in the set. Their population numbers should increase, but relative to the other cards in the set they'll always be tougher than the rest.

    But. . .I've also found that if you consistently beat the bushes, you'll find low-pop stuff to submit. You won't find them at every show, but if you look they are out there. So far I've been able to submit the following on my own for PSA8s. . .
    2 Expos Team
    4 Wayne Garrett
    1 Mays IA
    1 Aaron IA
    1 Reds RC
    1 McRae IA
    1 Ralph Houk


    Another tough card that noone has mentioned is #532 - Fred Kendall. There are only 9 PSA8s (tho there are two 9s). VERY tough card.


    Dan> The Barton IA is almost always centered about 85/15 L/R.

    Mike
    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • gemintgemint Posts: 6,110 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Frank. I picked up my Schaal IA from Kyle Boetel. It ended up grading an 8. He had picked up a nice second series vending run and picked out the nicest Schaal's. A few had already sold by the time I got to him, so I imaging there were a few PSA 8 quality examples in that run. I think unopened second series wax boxes are among the most plentiful vintage unopened material in the hobby (along with 3rd series '72). Most people didn't/don't bother opening these packs because there are no money cards in that series. The Gibson and Brock are the only two superstars in the series and they book for under $10 in graded form.
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭
    Some players have a collector base that is obsessive about their cards. Munson is one of those.

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • highendhighend Posts: 534
    never mind the munson IA whats that wills ia going to go for? i have an early bet on who the winner will be but it won't be a cheap pickup.

    i agree the pops on a lot of the mentioned cards will increase, but it's safe to say that these cards will remain among the toughest.
    i already placed my highest bid on that munson IA and since i'm into the 72 set for the long haul i think patience is the best approach to picking up the stars in PSA 9. in a few years most of the stars will be available for well under SMR value, which is NOT a real indicator of value....a completed items search on ebay is far more accurate.
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭
    gemint> And I must say, that Schaal IA is very happy in its current home image

    Mike
    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
    old thread on low pops

    Interesting to see which cards are still low pop. the 1965 honor is no longer Lee, but Smith.
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
  • BasiloneBasilone Posts: 2,492 ✭✭
    Wayne's post in the old thread that TheBobs linked is all you need to know about low-pops:


    Thursday March 14, 2002 11:04 AM

    Since I'm doing the 65 set in PSA 8 the hardest card for me is #46 Bob Lee because it doesn't exist.

    Wayne



    Well as of today (July 7, 2004)....there are 18 PSA 8s of 1965 Topps #46 Bob Lee.

    Just be careful with those "low pops".


  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    Here is what I posted back then:

    1955 Bowman Birdie Tebbets card #232. Population ONE in PSA 8
    1955 Bowman Ray Narleski #96. Population TWO in PSA 8, none higher.


    The Birdie Tebbets card is now population of three in PSA 8, and the Ray Narleski is Population six.
    Frank Lary, which has been the toughest card in the set for a while, just had a third example graded PSA 8, and it has a sticker price of $995. The Tebbets today would go for many hundred dollars - and I know of at least one person that will pay $500+ for the Narleski.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same ;-) (Yes - populations have increased somewhat - but many of the PSA 8s today will sell for many multiples of what I was able to buy PSA 9s at back in 2002)
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • BasiloneBasilone Posts: 2,492 ✭✭

    It goes without saying that 55 Bowmans are MUCH TOUGHER to grade out than 1965 Topps. I guess it matters which set you are talking about.
  • FBFB Posts: 1,684 ✭✭
    Well...

    I was hoping to steal the Wills IA in PSA 10 the highend was alluding to earlier in the thread. But, in the end - someone else also understood that its amongst the most difficult cards in the set - so almost $700 later - it is his...

    No regrets...
    Frank Bakka
    Sets - 1970, 1971 and 1972
    Always looking for 1972 O-PEE-CHEE Baseball in PSA 9 or 10!

    lynnfrank@earthlink.net
    outerbankyank on eBay!
  • dudedude Posts: 1,454 ✭✭
    I disagree with your assessment somewhat. I know at least one collector who has a 1955 Bowman baseball set in raw shape that I would estimate houses at least 40-60 PSA 9's and the rest PSA 8's. Some supercollectors who are in the hobby just for the sake of collecting don't get too much "value" out of getting some of their cards graded. Their collections are worth millions - with or without the slab. With the slab, they have to deal with inconsistency and other issues (this collector I refer to had a very bad experience in grading his 1954 Bowman set), not to mention the cost.

    You have to remember that so many joined this hobby well before grading mattered. The one nugget you can keep in your mind is this: If 75 Honus Wagner T-206 cards are believed to exist (a number that seems about right given various documentation and research) today, only 1/3 of them are graded. And there you are talking about a card that is worth six-figures in PSA 1 Poor-Fair condition.


    Interesting post. In many ways I agree and in same cases disagree. If a person built sets out of sealed cases or accumulated high-end vintage cards through very reputable dealers, then I would agree. However, if a collector with deep pockets built his collection by going to big shows from the mid-80's through the mid-90's and paid big bucks for raw cards that appeared to be "mint", who knows how many of his cards in his collection haven't been toyed with? One case in point. I once spoke to someone fairly well known in the hobby who claims that he had a close relationship with a well known Major League player. The player told this person that he had a "world class collection of vintage cards, perhaps the best in the world". When this person finally saw this player's cards in person, he has heartbroken because it was obvious that so many of the high dollar cards were trimmed and had to break the bad news to this ball player. This player ended up tracking down a lot of those dealers and got most of this money back.
  • highendhighend Posts: 534
    i think DUDE brings up a good point, i would bet alot of longtime collectors who have never had any interest in grading are certainly holding altered cards. i'm sure that i have more than a few in my raw collection but can't bear the awful truth that sending them to PSA would reveal.
    i had always collected older cards as a kid and young adult and those cards were VERY hard earned and even harder to come by... getting a little off topic but EBAY has taken away alot of the thrill that "the hunt" used to bring.
Sign In or Register to comment.