Attn Early Copper Guys - opinions on this early half cent

seanq

Just arrived in a group of error coins from eBay:



The corrosion is actually pretty mild, just enough to confound the scanner optics. With the coin in hand I can distinctly make out the first three digits of the date as 179, the seller claimed it was a 1794 but I'm about 90% sure I can see traces of a 5. The rim is plain, no traces of any lettering. It's a litle darker than the image and slightly bent, but otherwise it's in remarkable shape. I also think the rim at K-1 (obverse) shows a Mint clip, but with the bend passnig right through that point I can't be 100% sure.

Can any of the copper gurus here confirm the date from other die markers? I'm grading it VG details net AG, is that fair? Finally, any clue on a value?

Thanks in advance,

Sean Reynolds

Conder101

Not a 1794, the junction of the hair and forehead is way too far to the right to be any of the 94's or the 97's so it is either a 95 or a 96. 96 C-1 also has the JHF to the left so it is out. That leaves 95 C-1 thru C-6 or 96 C-2. The key feature then is the point of leaf below the ME of AMERICA. It is just right of being centered between them and the only thing that matches that is 1795 C-6. What does the coin weigh?

seanq

Thanks, Conder. I Googled around a bit and found Tom Reynolds' site, which has pictured two 1795 half cents both attributed as C-6a. I compared the reverses and my coin seems like a match. He lists but doesn't picture a C-6b as struck on a thick planchet, is planchet weight the point of difference between the 6a and 6b? I'll weigh the coin tonight and report back, I imagine between the corrosion and the clip it will be slightly underweight.


Sean Reynolds

Conder101

Yes it is the difference. Th 6a is struck on a thin rolled copper planchet witha weight when new of around 84 grains. The 6b was struck on cut down large cents with a weight of around 100 grains.

seanq

Well it weighed in at 5.1 grams, or 78.7 grains, which would make it a C-6a. From the number I've seen in researching this coin, I'm assuming this is one of the most common die pairs for the date.

Conder: thanks for both attributions, this coin and the clipped 1837 I posted in another thread. What books are you using for these attributions? I know C = Cohen, S = Sheldon, and N = Newcombe, but what are the actual book titles so I can see about adding them to my library?

Hrmmm... you know, these things always start innocently enough, but what do you want to bet in five years I'm planning vacations around EAC conventions?


Sean Reynolds

Gonfunko

Sheldon's book is Penny Whimsy, and Newcomb's book is titled United Sates Copper Cents 1816-1857. Cohen's book is American Half Cents - The "Little Half Sisters"

Conder101

<< <i>Sheldon's book is Penny Whimsy, and Newcomb's book is titled United Sates Copper Cents 1816-1857. Cohen's book is American Half Cents - The "Little Half Sisters" >>


Gonfnko is correct on the books but they are not quite the ones I would recommend.

Penny Whimsey is still a good book and worth having, but stay away from the latest 1990 edition. It is a piece of junk. Any of the other editions would be fine (58, 65, 76, or 81. My personal reference is for the 58 or 65 editions) The latest book though is Breens Encyclopedia of Early United States Cents 1793 - 1814. One problem with Breen is that the varieties are arranged in what he believes is the emission sequence which is not the same as Sheldons. Now most people collect by Sheldon numbers yet so it is a little harder to look things up in Breen, but the plates are much better than in Sheldon, plus he has all of the varieties discovered since Sheldon came out.

Newcombs book is a waste of time and money. I would not advise buying it unless you just want it for the fact that it was the major book for some 40 years. It is NOT easy to use. If you want the reference on the middle date cents I would greatly advise The Cent Book by John Wright

For the half cents Cohens Little Half Sisters is good, but I prefer Breens Encyclopedia of Untited States Half Cents 1793 - 1857

Other references I would recommend would be Superior's 1986 Robbie Brown sale, and the 1989 Jack Robinson sale. Complete sets of Early dates and middle date sets missing one or two varieties. Every lot is pictured, die variety diagnostics given for each variety, die state information, and in the case of the Jack Robinson sale some pieces pictured in multiple dies states plus a set of half cents by variety missing only one variety. The half cents are given the same excellent pictures and write up as the large cents. If you can only buy one book on early copper the Jack Robinson sale catalog should be it. (At least until DWH sells his collection.) It was the jack Robinson sale catalog that I used to identify your half cent and 1837 N-3. The sale catalogs also have the advantage of being much lighter and easier to carry with you to shows etc. and they are the least expensive of all of the books mentioned. There is also a 1996 Robbie Brown sale which would probably be good to add as well. I don't like it as well (Most but not all lots pictured, and I like the pictures in the 86 sale a little better.) but it contains the most complete set of early date varieties ever sold. All of the Sheldon numbered varieties and most of the NC (Non-Collectible) varieties. So it has some NC varieties pictured which are not in either of the earlier sales.

One other book I really like, but don't have yet, is United States Large cents by William Noyes. It is a two volume work 1793-1814 and 1816 - 1839. The first volume has the excellent text of Sheldon with even better plates than the Breen book. The middle date book has plates as good as Wright, but Wright reads better. The second valume can be bought seperately but the first volume only comes as part of the two volume set. and the set costs around $220.

If you want the book on the late date cents then you want United States Large Cents 1840 - 1857 by Robert Grellman It is the unmatched work for the late dates. The first two auction catalogs mentioned also contain nearly complete late date sets as well, with every lot pictured and diagnostics listed, but the diagnostic features are so small and fine that they don't show in the actual size pictures so you really can't see what you need to see. So they really aren't any good for the late dates.

seanq

Excellent information! I thnk I may have bought a copy of the '96 Brown catalog at the time of the sale, with the thinking it would become a reference text down the road (same reason I bought both of the Eliasburg catalogs around the same time). I can't thank you enough, Conder!


Sean Reynolds