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Anybody Have Any Pictures Of Coin Doctors Slabbed AT Coins?

HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I keep hearing how the coin doctors have been producing market acceptable coins for the last 10 years and how the toner market is gonna crash. All this talk, and I have yet to see anyone post a single picture of one in a pcgs or ngc slab. Well, lets pony up folks. Show us the doctors masterpieces if you think you have any, and please explain why you think they are AT.

Comments

  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    I don't have any toners nor pics even if I did. However, there's always been something that's baffled me regarding toners. How can a vendor, buyer or the alike state that a coin is "End roll toned," yet, both the reverse and obverse are toned. In my opinion, it would stand to figure that if a coin is "End roll toned," the coin would be toned on one side not both..eg: Top of the roll or bottom of the roll whichever way it sits in the roll. How would the coin, if end roll toned, be toned on both sides? One of the sides would be kissing another coin; therefore, unable to attain the checmical reaction that most say happens from the type of paper that's used to make the rolls. I get confused.image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>All this talk, and I have yet to see anyone post a single picture of one in a pcgs or ngc slab. >>



    image

    A Tonecoin2003 paint job.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭
    How would the coin, if end roll toned, be toned on both sides?
    If the coin sat in a mint bag for an extended period of time before it was removed and rolled. However, I think most of the ones that you describe that I have seen on ebay are simply bag toned coins that are missattributed as endrollers because they show some form of patterning. Remember, there were seams inside the bags that can cause some pretty cool toning patterns.image
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    If the coin sat in a mint bag for an extended period of time before it was removed and rolled. However, I think most of the ones that you describe that I have seen on ebay are simply bag toned coins that are missattributed as endrollers because they show some form of patterning. Remember, there were seams inside the bags that can cause some pretty cool toning patterns.


    Hmmh, interesting! I never considered that aspect.image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    An end roller could also be toned on both sides if it sat in an album long enough after being pulled from a roll. I've seen some very pretty ones with end roll pattern on one side and target on the other.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭
    A Tonecoin2003 paint job.
    Why do you consider the piece at, Russ. I agree the source is a known doc, but for the most part his pieces do not look like the one you posted. If he could create work like that, then why is the vast majority of his stuff so awful? If you look at his feedback, he buys quite a few slabbed toners to resell and add to his lol credibility. You sure thats not one of the latter? Anyway to find out if he was the original submitter of that piece?
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A Tonecoin2003 paint job.
    Why do you consider the piece at, Russ. I agree the source is a known doc, but for the most part his pieces do not look like the one you posted. >>



    Besides the fact that it's toned exactly the same way on the reverse, I - and several others here - know the provenance of the coin.

    Tonecoin2003 sells it raw on eBay.

    A couple months later, it shows up on Teletrade graded by NGC and goes unsold.

    Shortly after, it shows up on eBay where, in addition to a scan of the slab, (a bad one), the seller uses Toneturd's original raw images. Coin doesn't meet reserve.

    A couple months later, it's consigned to greattoning and listed on eBay again.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    the seller uses Toneturd's original raw images. Coin doesn't meet reserve.

    Toneturd...image Yer killin' me, Russ!
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I keep hearing how the coin doctors have been producing market acceptable coins for the last 10 years and how the toner market is gonna crash. All this talk, and I have yet to see anyone post a single picture of one in a pcgs or ngc slab. Well, lets pony up folks. Show us the doctors masterpieces if you think you have any, and please explain why you think they are AT. >>

    These are three (of several) I have in hand (it's easier to pass judgement on a coin when it is seen, in hand, and the history is known, first hand, and not only viewed from a photo):

    image

    REVERSE:
    image

    image

    And, just to show PCGS has been at it awhile, slabbing AT coins... here's an older make:

    image

    REVERSE:
    image

    peacockcoins

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem is there are many AT coins out there in slabs. The dealers know it, the collectors know it but no one will step up for either fear of a lawsuit, or it might just ruin their source. There are some dealers that will sell anything with the attitude, if it's slabbed it's good enough for me. Which brings up another question..... Is it OK to sell this kind of stuff knowing it's AT? Legally, probably. Ethically, I hope they sleep good at night.

    BTW, I do indeed know of at least one for sure in a slab, but last I seen it was up for sale again. I'm not gonna reveal it due to they might find a legal way to come after me. I'm just a small time collector, but you better believe some dealers not only know of AT coins in slabs, but they also know the SOURCE.

    Some of these "Doctors" do not just AT the whole coin like people look for. Some are going around to shows and such, looking for possibly upgrading a piece by simply enhancing a portion of the coin. Most people are looking over the usual diagnostics for AT and thinking it looks good, which it does. Without just looking for some sections that heat or something else has been applied.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, Braddick. Now those pieces are hideous and I would say fairly obviouslly at'd, but I wouldn't say they are the type that would threaten to bring the market crashing down.
  • TonekillerTonekiller Posts: 1,308 ✭✭
    Just for you Stman. image

    image
    image



    Tell you what Stman, I will take this coin to Baltimore and give it to NGC. If they want to take it off the market they can and all I will get is grading credits. The coin is consigned to us and I will turn around and pay him off in US dollars.

    Updates during Baltimore....deal?
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,975 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks, Braddick. Now those pieces are hideous and I would say fairly obviouslly at'd, but I wouldn't say they are the type that would threaten to bring the market crashing down. >>

    True, but to be fair, these are the obvious ones, to highlight the points made in this Thread.

    It is the others, hidden in PCGS and NGC holders, burried in many collections that would make a grown man cry in his sleep if he only knew...

    peacockcoins

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Just for you Stman. image

    image
    image



    Tell you what Stman, I will take this coin to Baltimore and give it to NGC. If they want to take it off the market they can and all I will get is grading credits. The coin is consigned to us and I will turn around and pay him off in US dollars.

    Updates during Baltimore....deal? >>



    Heh, who says that is the one I was talking about? Thanks for posting it though.image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    I like this one. Does it look AT?
    image

    image
  • TonedCoinTraderTonedCoinTrader Posts: 2,765 ✭✭✭
    Placid,
    Due to the High silver content these coins Tone rapidly and do tone with colors like that. I think it is Natural.

    Scott






    Toned Coins for sale @ tonedcointrader.com
  • FrattLawFrattLaw Posts: 3,290 ✭✭
    Placid -- looks okay to me.

    I've seen that toned Peace $ in hand it does appear AT. The untoned aspects of the coin appear to have no original skin and appear somewhat dipped out as though an artist just washed his canvas before painting a masterpiece.

    TBT -- let's us know what NGC has to say.

    Michael
  • UncleWigglyUncleWiggly Posts: 2,467
    I still can't distinguish real from artificial. Someone told me the other day the toned SE I had was gassed to make to tone. What's that mean?? Jerry
  • FrattLawFrattLaw Posts: 3,290 ✭✭


    << <i>Someone told me the other day the toned SE I had was gassed to make to tone. What's that mean?? >>



    Some highly advanced AT methods involve highly reactive gases in order to tone coins quickly. I've heard about, never seen, setups where those gases are passed slowly across the surface of the coin in order to replicate natural toning that takes decades.

    I'm pretty sure that AT Peace $ was gassed since the obverse and reverse have the same pattern. Gassed AT are hard to spot. There are numerous Ike dollars proof and MS that have been gassed that are in top TPG holders.

    Michael

  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    Tonecoin2003 sells it raw on eBay.
    A couple months later, it's consigned to greattoning and listed on eBay again.

    Is there any connection between TC2003 and greattoning?? image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,874 ✭✭✭✭
    No -- adamantly "no."
    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
  • onlyroosiesonlyroosies Posts: 3,294 ✭✭✭✭
    "Is there any connection between TC2003 and greattoning??"

    Not even close. Dick (Greattoning) is top notch. I've been to several
    shows with Dick and Bill (Rainbowroosie) and these two guys are
    unbelievable as to what they can uncover at a show. thay know
    who and what to ask and out comes the pretty stuff. Dick is usually
    running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

    greattoning buys all his own coins already slabbed or takes them on
    consignment. He does not make coins.

    Nick

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