Addicted to the World Poker Tour
TheCARDKid
Posts: 1,496 ✭
in Sports Talk
This has become my favorite show on TV bar none. The producers do a great job in the editing and production departments. There seems to be more depth and more suspense in WPT than either the World Series of Poker on Espn or (gasp!) Celebrity Poker Showdown on Bravo.
It's ironic that the Travel Channels highest rated show has nothing to do with travel. I hope they don't over do it with the blackjack and celebrity copy cat shows.
It's ironic that the Travel Channels highest rated show has nothing to do with travel. I hope they don't over do it with the blackjack and celebrity copy cat shows.
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Brent
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this is great entertainment! They have personality types just like the WWF - Phil Helmuth is a big whiner, Scotty Nguyen is a big mouth, Howard Lederer is smooth - in the last WSP on espn - when Chris Moneymaker drew an ace on the river to knock out Phil Ivey - I went nuts! I don't gamble - stink at it - attention span of dirt! - but I enjoy the high stakes drama.
If you like poker - Texas holdem - try it - I think watching can be addictive.
Stone
Brian
I thought Celebrity Poker Showdown on Bravo would be better. In some of the games, there weren't even any big celebs.I think it's their #1 show though.
The personalities types are also very interesting. Hellmuth is the brat. Ivey is the Tiger Woods of Poker. Layne Flack is the frat boy. Sammy Farha is cool and sophisticated, like a movie star from the 40's.
And the poker aint bad either.
Keith
<< <i>I love the WSP on ESPN the best. >>
GET READY! The 2004 tourney Starts TONIGHT!!!!!!!
2004 World Series of Poker Schedule on ESPN
(Schedule is Subject to Change)
July 6 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $2,000 No Limit Hold 'Em
July 6 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $1,500 7 Card Stud
July 13 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $1,000 No Limit Hold 'Em
July 13 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $2,000 Pot Limit Omaha
July 20 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $1,500 No Limit Hold 'Em
July 20 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $5,000 No Limit Hold 'Em
July 27 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $1,000 Ladies Limit Hold 'Em World Championship
July 27 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $5,000 7 Card Stud
August 3 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $3,000 Pot Limit Hold 'Em World Championship
August 3 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $1,500 Razz World Championship
August 10 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $5,000 Limit Hold 'Em World Championship
August 10 10-11PM World Series of Poker: $5,000 Pot Limit Omaha
August 17 9-10PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
August 17 10-11PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
August 24 9-10PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
August 24 10-11PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
August 31 9-10PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
August 31 10-11PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
September 7 9-10PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
September 7 10-11PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT
September 14 9-11PM 2004 World Series of Poker: MAIN EVENT 2 HOUR FINALE!
Other Televised World Series of Poker Events:
September 28 9-10PM World Series of Poker: Two-Seven Draw
October 5 9-10PM World Series of Poker: $3,000 No Limit Hold 'Em
Poker on ESPN
ESPN enjoyed unprecedented ratings and viewership for its 2003 presentation of poker's premier event. The series garnered a 1.2 overall rating with an average of more than one million viewing households. ESPN has televised the World Series of Poker seven times, including last year's event, which was won by Chris Moneymaker, an accountant from Spring Hill, Tennessee. The network has aired poker since 1994 and has included coverage of the U.S. Poker Open (1998 and 1999), the World Poker Open (2000 and 2001) and the U.S. Poker Championship (1996 and 2004).
Founded 66 years ago, Harrah's Entertainment, Inc. owns or manages through various subsidiaries 25 casinos in the United States, primarily under the Harrah's brand name. Harrah's Entertainment is focused on building loyalty and value with its valued customers through a unique combination of great service, excellent products, unsurpassed distribution, operational excellence and technology leadership. More information about Harrah's is available at www.harrahs.com.
EOE is developing a wide-variety of branded programming to add to the network's comprehensive event and sports news coverage. Using a collection of genres - original movies, reality-based shows, dramatic series, documentaries, game shows and more - ESPN's goal is to broaden its audience by more strongly appealing to younger and casual sports fans.
Thanx for the info! They have been promo'ing this event on espn for a while now - as I said, for those who like poker this stuff is pretty interesting. And BTW, the WPT on the Travel Channel on Wed. nites is pretty good stuff - as we said - we LOVE Shauna!
Stone
As for the shows being a shill for Internet card rooms, well, maybe they are. Many shows on the Travel Channel are shills for Vegas in general. But, so what? If watching makes you interested enough to try it for yourself, you can either play for free (most poker sites have a free area) or lay down a few bucks and try the low limit games. Many sites even have micro-limit games with 1 cent/2 cent blinds. If you're no good and lose your stake, you're down $50 - big deal. There's no fleecing going on here. If you watch Baseball Tonight and then go buy a glove and bat, are you being fleeced? As with anything, you should do your homework before parting with your cash. If you're a beginner, check out Winning Low-Limit Hold'em by Lee Jones.
Final plug: If you want to play for real money but not your own money, Vegas Queens Poker has free 10 cent tournaments running constantly. First place gets 5 cents, second place 3 cents, and third place two cents. Then they have microlimit tourneys running from 5 cent to $110 buyins. The quality of play is poor because everyone's playing with house money
Joe
<< <i>Some guy in the open forum won like $30,000 in an online tourney a few months ago if I remember correctly! >>
Yep, SuperCoin finished second in a $300 buy-in $250,000 tournament on PokerStars and pocketed $35,964
Joe
Edited to add link to thread.
1. They are not games of skill whatsoever as far as making money is concerned - the fact is that the "house" in this case being the gambling website, will windup with all of the player's money. I call that fleecing - you can call it whatever you like. You may be the best player in those games and you may even beat all of the other players, but you can't beat the house. That little cut from each pot guarantees that the house will eventually end up with all of the player's money, all of the time. The best poker players in the world don't play in these internet games or casino run games because they understand that it is hopeless.
2. Just in case the top poker players in the world haven't figured it out yet, by playing in enough tournaments, all of them will also eventually lose all of their money to the house. The house cut on these tournaments averages between 3% - 10%. Sure there is that fortunate player who wins the big jackpot, but that player will guaranteed eventually lose back that winning money if entering too many tournaments in the future.
3. There was a comment about just playing for a little bit of money, say $50 - sounds like a clever ad for the internet gambling website. Nobody who starts playing at these internet poker games "only" loses $50. They lose an awfully lot more. You have no chance at all to win money in these internet sucker poker games so stay far away from them and don't ever download their software - if you do, that will turn out to be by far the most terribly expensive download which you will ever experience beyond your present belief - you guaranteed will eventually angrily delete that software - so never download it! You've now been warned - the choice is yours.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
Saying "The best poker players in the world don't play in these internet games or casino run games because they understand that it is hopeless." is simply not true. Erick Lindgren (a top bricks-and-mortar tournament player) still plays all the time at PartyPoker, and several more top pros do under psuedonyms.
You've touched upon an important point - if you don't have the discipline to walk away, don't walk in to begin with. As with any form of gambling, if you have the personality traits of a gambling addict, it's best never to start. And Internet gambling is worst of all in this respect, because you can play anywhere at any time, and it's so impersonal that no one else is ever likely to know that you have a problem.
If you view it as a fun diversion where you could make a little money or lose a little money, I don't see the harm. Compared to bricks-and-mortar casinos, the percentages are better, the limits are lower, and the availability is greater. Some people on the fringes think the games are rigged, but I find that very very unlikely.
My two cents,
Joe
<< <i>That little cut from each pot guarantees that the house will eventually end up with all of the player's money, all of the time >>
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, its mathematically impossible for the house to win all the money at a table if they only take a % of each pot -- unless said percent is 100%
Stated another way, the house can take 50% of an amount of money an infinite number of times but never get the entire amount.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
Stone
1. Example - Five people start a poker game with a bankroll of $10 each at a casino or internet poker site. Total players bankroll of $50. As was mentioned, say the house takes .50 out of each $10 average pot. After 20 pots (20 pots x .50 = $10) the house has all the money from the average pot. After 100 pots (100 pots x .50 =$50) the house has $50, which is the entire bankroll the players started with. The house has won 100% of all the player's money. These gambling websites of course spin things and advertise that you could get lucky or be skillful and win. There is not any luck or skill with gambling house poker - everyone will always lose their entire bankroll, not always on each individual poker session, but eventually the entire bankroll will be lost. If adding another bankroll - that will also eventually be lost.
2. That professional poker player who says he plays at the internet poker site is probably a liar and just being paid to endorse the gambling website. If he does play poker at the gambling website, he is losing money.
3. I respect the poster who said he quit after losing $50. Very smart thing to quit. Most people lose an awfully lot more money than that. Poker is not a game played for "fun." It is a game played to win money. Poker players understand this. Now that it should be clear to you that the house is guaranteed to win all the money, you should never have a desire to play poker at an internet gambling website or in a casino.
4. Good point about the games possibly being rigged but it doesn't even matter. The house will win all your money whether the game is rigged or whether it is the most honest house-run poker game on the face of the earth.
I deeply enjoy baseball card collecting and dislike having fellow collectors getting fleeced. When wanting to "spend" your money, do it on baseball (or other sports) card collecting - you'll always have something to show for it. You'll have absolutely nothing to show for gambling at an internet poker site, except less money or no money in your bank account. You can believe me or believe the other posters, whom I respect, but they are totally incorrect about the possibility of winning money. Being incorrect about this is actually very common - these gambling poker websites are very clever and have fooled lots of people into believing that money can be won.
CU turns its lonely eyes to you
What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
hey hey hey
hey hey hey
But, it has been good entertainment watching tonite even tho none of the big names were in the finals of texas holdem. Now the 7 card stud match was interesting in that Men "the master" Nguyen was shooting his mouth off and going home in 3rd place. This is not high quality drama but definitely intriguing to watch the personality types and how they play the game.
On gambling, I only know two things that my dad taught me: 1. if you can't afford to lose, you can't afford to win. 2. You can't beat a man at his own game.
Finally, I think some really good points were made about internet gambling and I agree, if you are going to throw your money at an obscession - at least with collectibles, you've got SOMETHING to show when the money is spent.
thanx CARDkid for a very interesting thread!
Stone
I respect your position Steve; however, I have a few counter-examples, albeit anecdotal. The key word is SELF CONTROL as true with almost anything in life. Basically online poker is analogous to fishing and we are the fish – we can nibble on the worm, but if we bite down, we’ll get gutted. If one has self-control you WILL get something for NOTHING! My friend makes money at it so I gave it a try. I put $100 in and took $100 out after 8 hours of work. However, the comps started coming. Free money! They gave me $20 twice and in order to cash it out I had to play it in X number of raked hands. After X raked hands I had about $125 both times! Statistically you will probably lose the free money but other then time you have nothing to lose! Another feature is the free online “play for fun modes”, which are fun to play, and they cost nothing.
Brian
<< <i>Another feature is the free online “play for fun modes”, which are fun to play, and they cost nothing. >>
Brian
Are those games where you can observe if you want and then jump in to play for fake $? I think I looked in one but the game was being played at warp speed.
Mike
<< <i>Are those games where you can observe if you want and then jump in to play for fake $? I think I looked in one but the game was being played at warp speed. >>
Yeah, basically you download the software from partypoker, ultimatebet, etc. and play with "fun" money. You can give them BS names and info to remain anonymous. About the only downside to it is that it can be less serious than the real games – like people going “all-in” every hand so you might think you are better than you really are.
Brian
If what you say is true for Internet gambling, then it's true for all gambling. The house always takes its cut, so by your rationale the house will always take everyone's money, and there would be no professionals. Please tell me why Internet poker is different.
Joe
<< <i>Please tell me why Internet poker is different. >>
Joe
I have never gambled in a casino (have played slots a bit) - am I correct - when a group is playing texas holdem e.g., one is not playing against the house but rather each other and the house gets a % for hosting the game? My guess is that internet gambling would be the same unless it is rigged - is this correct - any gamblers out there?
As a final on the first nite of espn's poker series, I thought it wasn't bad entertainment. But, I do look forward to the actual main event - be nice to see Moneymaker at the final table and dispell the sour grapes that he is a 'total amateur' who got lucky - if so, I wish I could be that lucky!
Mike
There is not any such thing as a "professional" gambler in a gambling industry operated business. Be it any type of casino gambling including blackjack, and also sports betting, horse race betting, stock market day trading, etc., where the perception is that skill is involved. Skill is involved to reduce the house edge but it cannot eliminate the house edge so technically and realistically there is not any skill involved in any gambling industry operated business.
Are there professional poker players in private games? - absolutely yes. Privately played poker is strictly a game of skill and in these games the best players will always eventually win the money. But people making money at a gambling industry operated business is a clever marketing fabrication done by them or those friendly to them. For instance, every "how to win at gambling" book in the marketplace is a pure fraud and of course the authors know that. The exception is of books about winning poker in private games. That is possible. Very possible. Learning how to play better poker against your neighborhood friends or club pals, will help you to win money. But any "how to win at poker" book that says it is possible to win money at casino or internet gambling poker sites, is definitely a fraud.
You made an interesting point about "gambling addiction" in an earlier post. My posts are not about gambling addiction. My posts are about why play games in which you are 100% guaranteed to lose your money? Very possibly a lot more money than intended. You had a link to a thread whereby some guy says he just won $30,000 in a poker tournament. Whose to say if this guy is lying or not? But even if he isn't lying it doesn't matter. If he keeps playing he will definitely lose back that winning money and more. I fully understand the adrenaline rush thrill gotten from playing the poker games - but it isn't worth it. And if wanting a bigger adrenaline rush gambling thrill, you have to gamble more money which means losing more money. Instead of the 10 cent games, a year later you could find yourself progressing to the $10 & $20 games chasing your gambling losses which is lost money that won't be gotten back. These are not isolated incidents - this gambling progression happens to a lot of people. So again, I state that the choice is yours - quit playing internet poker now or never start playing internet poker, or sooner or later you will windup eventually quitting anyway after losing hundreds and very possibly many, many thousands of dollars and more.
One last point from another post about casino and internet gambling comps. Getting those "free" comps will windup being the most terribly EXPENSIVE "free" things that you will ever receive in your life.
I am new to this CU forum and am enjoying it immensely and really enjoy the posts especially about vintage cards. My favorites are Topps 1950's and 60's baseball cards with a sprinkling of modern and pre-ww2 cards and a little bit of other sports especially football. I have learned some interesting things regarding some other topics discussed on this forum which have helped me and I also get interesting new information off some threads. My detailed post in this thread is my way of "giving back" and helping out whenever I can. I hope my posts will help some of you to avoid the unpleasant and potentially horrible consequences of losing money playing internet poker on gambling websites.
I’m sorry if losing a lot of money has embittered you, but you're going a bit too far.
<< <i>One last point from another post about casino and internet gambling comps. Getting those "free" comps will windup being the most terribly EXPENSIVE "free" things that you will ever receive in your life. >>
Did you read my most or just skip around for the word "comps" and then go into your pitch about it? I broke even before the comps, got $40 in comps and turned it into $250 cash, and I know plenty of other people who have had similar success. Just because statistically one loses money doesn’t mean they will. If we were talking about thousands of people, then yes, they shouldn’t play because as a whole they will lose; however on an individual basis many will win.
Brian
Always remember this about gambling websites including poker websites: You can win some of the money some of the time, but they will win all of the money all of the time.
Brian
So it's possible to beat a home game but not a casino game? Let's simplify things and assume every hand is "heads up" (one on one). In order to beat a home game, you'd have to win >50% of the time. If the house takes 5% in a casino, you'd have to win roughly >51.5% of the time to beat a casino game (.515*.95 - .485 = .00425). Why do you believe it's possible to win >50% of the time consistently but not >51.5% of the time consistently? And please, lay off the conspiracy theories - "There is not any such thing as a 'professional' gambler in a gambling industry operated business." "But people making money at a gambling industry operated business is a clever marketing fabrication done by them or those friendly to them." So the thousands of professional gamblers out there are part of a massive conspiracy and are bankrolled by a cabal of casinos, and this has never leaked out?
I'm not trying to be confrontational, and I appreciate your civil tone, but I think you're wrong on this one. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Take care,
Joe
America is all about people trying to earn money and make a living, including myself. I make a living in the computer graphics printing business, and also buy & sell baseball cards on ebay (100% positive feedback) and I also have written a book in which the information helped myself and is helping others in regards to gambling. I strongly believe that something had to be done about gambling businesses which have fleeced millions of people, including myself, out of an awful lot of money. My motive with the book was to help myself and help others. If I can make some money off the book sales while at the same time helping people to better understand the realities of gambling, to me that is a good thing.
Joe - There are not any conspiracy theories here - just the facts!
To further understand the ideas about this subject, you can go to www.gamblingfactsandfictions.com
You have a lot of knowledge on this topic which I lack - I agree, they are selling gambling - why else have a guy come on with an 800 number for gambling help - talk about a message falling on deaf ears! The first thing my wife said - there's a lot of controversy over the new series. Having said that, on an entertainment level I'm letting the buck to here:
Stone
Your book sounds like it has some great advice for gambling addicts. One of the signs of gambling addiction is chasing losses - for example, moving to higher limit tables to make up for losing at a lower limit table. Disciplined poker players don't do this. They move down in limits when they are losing. I applaud your efforts to help gambling addicts.
I'm not going to try to convince you or anyone that gambling addiction is not a very real and serious problem. I'm also not going to try to convince anyone that the house doesn't have an advantage. Of course it does, and the house always wins. But it is patently false to imply that everyone who ever gambles will turn into an addict and lose vast sums of money. There ARE professional gamblers whe consistently make money. More importantly, there are millions of people like TheBobs who dropped a few bucks, had some fun, and quit.
I think your heart is in the right place, but you're generalizing too much. Just because you and/or some people you know turned into addicts doesn't mean everyone who ever drops a nickel into a slot machine will.
Sorry for highjacking the thread, but I'm enjoying this debate
Joe
<< <i>Sorry for highjacking the thread, but I'm enjoying this debate >>
Joe
Good input and I agree with you. I believe there is an addictive personality type that may play into this equation. I do occasionally play slots - I take with me the amount I want to "lose" and then walk.
And, with all due respect, and deference to CARDKid, the topic was being addicted to WATCHING the WPT - so anything that sways from that topic would be a hijack - but still, unless Cardkid is offended, I believe this has been a great discussion with some really good people with rational points of view.
Thanx to you and Cornman - Brian along with Steve for some interesting discussion.
Mike
Joe probably gets in some lively debates especially about his political views on the Libertarian Party in which on his posts he has the banner about Badnarick for President. I can see where Joe could get some of his ideas - the following statement was pasted from the national platform of the Libertarian Party for the year 2000: QUOTE "We advocate the repeal of laws prohibiting the production, sale, or use of drugs; the repeal of laws restricting the use of alcohol; the repeal of laws regarding consensual sexual relations, including prostitution, and the cessation of state harassment of homosexuals; the repeal of laws prohibiting the distribution of sexually explicit material; the repeal of laws regulating gambling; the repeal of anti-racketeering statutes, the repeal of laws interfering with the right to commit suicide." END OF QUOTE
Mike - thanks for posting those pictures of Shana - I would tune in anytime to see her even if she was on the Weather Channel - LOL.
As stated the thread was highjacked, by myself included, so this is my final post on this thread. Thanks for the good chat gentlemen and hopefully we'll do sports and baseball cards next time.
Joe
I won two seats in 2008 on Pokerstars!
I do not play in online cash games, live sit n go's, or even on line tourneys!
But I do play in "step events" to win seats in live tournaments around the world!
I played in China (in September, Macao)
I also won a seat to the World Series of Poker (Las Vegas) (Took the cash! 12.5K)
To win a tourney, would be a life changing event!
Thank you, Pokerstars for 7 days of fun and excitement in China! (and the $12,500 for the WSOP was nice too!)
rd
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