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Repro proof envelopes

any good or easy way to tell a phony envelope on a 1957 proof set ?
bought one on flea bay,came in the mail today.
didnt open it.
my diagnostic: feels thin like it doesnt have the note card and the 2 cardboard pieces,envelope is pristine,does not "smell" like old paper,color is not close to the 64 sets i have,pix from the auction does not appear to be the same item.
the money wont hurt me,i just expect if it says sealed,i dont want it to be "sealed" in a repro package !

Proof
image

Comments

  • pontiacinfpontiacinf Posts: 8,915 ✭✭
    watch out there buddy...I dont know the diaognostics of real envelopes, but I know the fake emptys are a dime a dozen on ebay...someone here (cladking maybe) has the diaognostics
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
  • just did not feel or look correct.
    i was warned and bought it anyway !
    the pix looked like the real deal but what i got was not the pix.
    i dont wanna pay for searched "unsearched" proof sets !

    Proof
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  • Are you able to say who the seller was? Jerry
  • really would not disclose the seller !
    Link

    Proof
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  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    image
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • XpipedreamRXpipedreamR Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
    The real ones say "1957...Be-Bop-a-lula" in big bubble letters.
  • SemperFISemperFI Posts: 802 ✭✭✭
    What do you think of webbulator. He has been selling sealed proof sets for a long time now. I just wonder when he will run out. LINK
  • is that a 5.56 or a 7.62 ?
    image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    If eBay is to be believed, the vast majority of collectors over the years didn't really care about coins. They just liked looking at envelopes.

    Russ, NCNE
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777
    Does anybody know of any dealer who they really, honestly believe sells unsearched proof sets?? Do I hear anybody, or just the crickets chirping???
    image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is probably no way to know if any individual set is what's left after the good
    ones have been picked out. There are many ways to pick over sets that simply don't
    show. There are many dealers who do not personally pick over sets. There are reasons
    they don't and sometimes it's just because they want to get the best prices for all their
    sets. Others simply don't want to be bothered with more recent date or lower value
    coins. In any case the original sets are out there and they are mixed in with sets that
    have been picked over. Some dates like 1997 mint sets are mostly all original, while others
    like 1966 SMS's or 1958 proof sets are mostly picked over. Some sets will be picked over
    just for a single coin and some are picked over for all the coins and most of the varieties.

    It should be remembered that substandard sets are frequently dismantled to ease their
    sale or to gain more profit after the gems are removed. Gem sets have been accumulated
    by individuals and these sometimes come back on the market as just regular opened sets.

    I have some confidence in my ability to spot repro mint set packaging and a small collection
    of the fakes, but have not paid as much attention to the proofs. There are several different
    repro proof set packages available and some made little attempt to hide the fact that they
    are repros.
    Tempus fugit.
  • Myqqy,
    my local dealer has tons of sealed proof sets.
    i firmly believe they are virgin's
    he has 10 1957's @32.00 ea and 11 searched @ the same price
    still runs a bid board,dealt with them since about 1966.
    fact is,if anyone wants a proof set,PM me and i will see if he has it.

    Proof
    image
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>my local dealer has tons of sealed proof sets.
    i firmly believe they are virgin's >>



    Unless he's owned them since the day they came from the mint, there is no way to know that. He may have purchased them sealed, but somewhere along the chain of custody, they could easily have been picked over and resealed or put in new envelopes. Besides the reprints available, there are also thousands of unused originals out there.



    << <i>Does anybody know of any dealer who they really, honestly believe sells unsearched proof sets?? >>



    Even dealers who sell genuinely mint sealed sets are spot checking the boxes they get in.

    Russ, NCNE
  • Russ,
    thats the thing,he may have bought them from the mint.
    Shop opened in 1935,this is theyre 3 rd location that i can recall,going back to about 66
    they still keep bidder numbers in a notebook !
    the original owner died around 92,dont think he had any family,i believe he left the shop to the guys that worked for him for years,these 2 guys look like propellor heads.
    i trust em.

    Proof
    image
  • Sometimes I pick up sets in sealed shipping boxes and old post marks. I have more confidence in these.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sometimes I pick up sets in sealed shipping boxes and old post marks. I have more confidence in these. >>



    This is the best method to be reasonably confident that you are getting original sets
    but is not foolproof for all dates. It was possible in many years to recieve your sets
    in multiple boxes or shipping packages. The quality would be quite similar from one to
    the next which would allow cherry picking of unopened boxes.

    Until only recently it was common to find sets advertised in lots of five because this was
    the maximum allowed for many years. All you had to do was cruise e-bay for runs of
    sets being sold in lots of five. This has proved most ineffective the last few years.

    Usually you can get some sense of how heavily picked over they are just by looking at
    the clues like how shop worn the packaging is, and how many appear to have been bun-
    dled together for a long time. In large lots there should be several bunches of five which
    look original. There should be a good mixture of damaged and fresh envelopes and there
    should be about 5% with no envelope.

    Of course you could just open them up and see if they're original.
    Tempus fugit.
  • segojasegoja Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭✭
    As for fake envelopes, they seem to have a crisper edge, lettering and color. The originals seem to have "aged" as one would expect and the color seems to mellow. Look at some real ones (which by the way are not really rare) and compare to one that have a totally different color look to them. You'll see the difference immediately.

    As for Webbulator AKA Val Webb: I've been selling him proof sets since 1986, and others long before that. You will not see him ever run out of sets. Every major show dealers bring stuff to Val. He is the proof set King, has written a book on cameos and is working on other projects as well. He can be trusted to the nth degree for his honest and clean business dealings. He is very straight forward and a pleasure to deal with.
    JMSCoins Website Link


    Ike Specialist

    Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986

    image
  • this one looks nothing like the 64's i have.
    it is just too new !
    emailed the seller about returning it,but no reply yet.

    Proof
    image
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,938 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ebay items are just that ebay items there is no way to replace the collector dealer trust In short support your coin delaer of choice and you will be happier
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • one can always hope for the homerun !
    image

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