Should PSA slab - trimmed, recolored, etc?

FB

I think that I heard this idea from Putty and I thought that it was interesting enough that it deserved its own thread. To be honest - I had never even considered it. But, after thinking about it - I think that its a pretty darn good idea.

In my mind - here's why...

1) I've already paid to have trimmed and recolored cards graded. So, if it comes back in a holder with a grade of PSA 8(TR) or PSA 8 (RE) on it - I've at least got something that I can CHOOSE to put in the registry if I want (maybe at a 4 point disadvantage instead of 2) for my $6 or $8 or $10.

2) Its less likely that these cards will be sold as MINT again by guys who'll have to break them out of holders.

3) We'll be taking more and more of these altered cards out of the raw card circulation.

4) Since PSA already will mark cards as simply "Authentic" for cards not meeting the grading standards of a PSA 1 - this shouldn't be much of a stretch.

What do you guys think?

grilloj39

I don't see a problem with it. It gives the customers the piece of mind that they have at least an authentic card (i.e. no reprint). In addition, the customer has the card encapsulated and can display it nicely within their collection. If he/she chooses to sell the encapsulated card, then buyers can be educated on the card's condition--versus just selling it raw.

It's a win-win situation for honest sellers and buyers as far as I'm concerned.

GAI already offers this service, so I do not see why PSA cannot follow suit.

CON40

Why not?

I've read posts from guys who say they have some interest in PRO cards that have obviously been trimmed simply because they want a copy of that card.

I think you'd have a hard time justifying to PSA because they already charge to "grade" a trimmed, etc, card, but don't incur any cost to slab it. So in essence, it would cost PSA money to holder such cards.

goodriddance189

if they grade altered cards, they should be graded only as "authentic."

AlanAllen

I think it's a good idea if and only if there is no numerical grade given. PSA 8 TR would be way too confusing, and would assign the card a grade it does not deserve. If a card is trimmed, it should be slabbed "authentic-trimmed" or not slabbed at all.

Joe

Fuzz

I like the idea becasue it does reflect an accurate description of the card. But Frank, I do not know about #2 however. If you can "bilk" someone out of hundreds of $ by selling a trimmed card. What would stop an unethical dealer from spending $30 to get it, crack it, and go. It will take some of the market but I doubt it will be a significant %.
Fuzz

pool

IMO, all cards that PSA charges payment for, should go thru the exact same process.
And all cards should be encapsulated with a grade or non-grade.
Cards that PSA does not charge payment for, such as a miscut, should not be encapsulated.

FB

Fuzz,

I wasn't thinking of the $30 cards. I was thinking of all the $2 and $3 cards that collectors assume can become $10 and $12 cards when they send them in hoping for the PSA 8. I'm sure that the big dollar cards will always be a target for cracking...

1954

fb-
I think that is a great idea. I would want them to not put a qualifier, but just a grade of "altered" or maybe some other term to let collectors know that it has been tampered with.

NickM

I agree with 1954. Perhaps AUTHENTIC ALTERED (probably split over two lines) should be the designation.

Nick

calleocho

there is a possibility that if they were to offer this new service, a lot of people might send in lots of trimmed cards and sadly a very small numbers of those might go through.

the authentic label should only be reserved for cards that are rare or valuable.

whats the point of having a $12 common inside a PSA slab?

Cubfan

I agree with the group that says it should just be a worded description (altered, trimmed, authentic, etc.).

Im not sure how you can have a card fit within a centering tolerance of the PSA numerical grades if part of the card is missing. It could have 4 perfect corners, but could be missing a quite a bit off of each side.

Two cents.


Keith

psavlad

I say don't grade or slab it at all, c'mon these are altered cards we are talking about. What's next, submit a fake Jordan 1986 Fleer and have it slabbed as a 9cp ...copy? PSA can't get involved with this type of stuff which is why I'm sure they don't. I can understand why a collector might use a trimmed card as a set filler, I just don't think it would be up to PSA's high standard to do so.

Griffins

Wow, I just had an unbelievable sense of Deja Vu...
I vote yes on this one, just don't give it a numberical grade- more something like Authentic-RC (recolored) or Auth-TR

NickM

psavlad - suppose you had an authentic but altered example of a rare or expensive vintage card. Might you want it slabbed with such a designation so that a buyer would have the peace of mind to know it was not counterfeit?
I'll use a '52 Topps Mickey Mantle as an example. When the card has been widely counterfeited and when even poor examples routinely sell for over $1000 if in a PSA holder, what is a trimmed or recolored version of the card worth? Would $500 or $1000 be an unreasonable value for it? By contrast, what is a counterfeit worth? [Technically, it's in violation of Topps copyright and trademarks, and is legally subject to seizure as contraband.]
There are a lot of candy and tobacco cards that are trimmed that sell in auctions for high dollars ($1000 or over) that are clearly stated in the description to be trimmed. I think these are a prime market for such a designation.
Oh, by the way, PSA will not grade Red Man cards with the tab cut off (it wasn't perforated and was marked off by a dotted line). What would be wrong with slabbing these with such a designation?

Nick

psavlad

NickM, to me an altered card is a form of a counterfeit, it's a card that was counterfeited to make $ on. I understand what you are saying in regards to vintage issues. Heck, I probably have the worst condition Hank Aaron 54 Topps in existance but I wanted a genuine copy and at the price I paid it was very affordable. I agree that such a card (trimmed Mantle) would still be a key card in a collection but I just don't see why PSA would lessen their standards to accomodate this form of counterfeiting. How many qualifiers would the card have if there was no grade given. A PSA AUTHENTIC TR, RC, OC, PD would be silly but possibly realistic under these guidelines. PSA would be saying, it's not a good enough fake to pass on the market but we'll grade it anyways? For the Red Man cards, basically PSA won't grade cut cards, I don't have a problem with this, this does bring similar parallel to a modern debate of 'To Peel' or 'Not To Peel'. The refractor peel on cards was mean't to be peeled, but it came out of the package 'unpeeled' and since most cards are valued on their original condition collector's have been given to option to peel and maybe reduce future value or not peel and risk possible damage to the card as the peel was intended to be removed. Would PSA grade a detached Magic/Bird Rookie? ...I don't know but at least that card was perforated. I would rather own a mantle rc with the complete lyrics of 'Take me out to the Ball Game' written in blue pen than a card that was trimmed and recolored. That would be genuine or Authentic, which a colored or altered card cannot ever be.

NickM

psavlad - I suggest just one designation to cover all types of alterations. AUTHENTIC ALTERED should cover everything (trimmed, recolored, restored corners, pressed, etc.).

I don't think PSA is lowering its standards to give that sort of a designation. I do think it provides a valuable service in relation to expensive cards.

Also remember that trimming was often done years ago for nondeceptive reasons. In addition to cards like Red Man, which practically asked you to cut them, many kids cut down cards for a variety of reasons (cutting off those ugly white borders, making them fit into spots in an album, etc.).

Ponder the following: You have a 1971 Topps card where the black border got dinged and there is a touch of white visible. If you color that spot with black marker, your card will currently be rejected. If you use a red marker instead, your card will be graded and given a MK qualifier. Do you agree with that distinction?

Nick

psavlad

NICKM, I think your analogy with the 71 Topps is a good one. It would seem to me that PSA is differenciating between a possible "cover-up" ie. recolored, counterfeit and what is an actual mark, purposely marked or not, it's visible and not hidden, it's also not trying to add value. I would go with a PSA Authentication program similar to what PSA does for the bats. No grading or slabbing. But a LOA that picks apart the card and gives a prefessional revue complete with pictures (as the bats hves). This service should cost around $50 and not bring a time guarantee, this would limit the amount of submissions to, like you mentioned, only high end vintage cards.

MorrellMan

"Authentic" only - no numeric grade. Strip cards, no matter how nice, do not get a numeric grade if they were cut inside of the border. Same should go for a trimmed card. Recolored - same deal. No numeric grade, just an "authentic - recolored" holder.

perkdog

Check out 707 sportscards websight under Mantle pic's. He has some 52 Mantles that some kid went crazy on with scissors.