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Oliver Jung Collection at ANR: In a word...
RYK
Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭
WOW! Lots of cool coins. The one I wish I could have is...
1847 $10 PCGS MS-64
Attractive, condition census pre-Civil War coin+distinctive (but not obtrusive) mark on obverse+Bass/Eliasberg/Clapp/Lyman Low pedigree="I want it"
1847 $10 PCGS MS-64
Attractive, condition census pre-Civil War coin+distinctive (but not obtrusive) mark on obverse+Bass/Eliasberg/Clapp/Lyman Low pedigree="I want it"
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Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I recognize one old friend that I used to own. Maybe I'll get a shot back at it. Some of the bust coins and early gold are knockouts.
Not bad for a 100 or so lot collection!!
roadrunner
<< <i>These guys have become the leading auctio company, IMO. >>
No doubt about it!
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>The one I wish I could have is... >>
You could for the right bid and a second mortgage
Mrearlygold, I agree ANR has moved to the forefront with their auctions. Some great people too
Yes, they upped me to $15k. Too bad that this is below the minumum bid for every coin that I have looked at.
I reread the catalog one more time last night more carefully, and have only three words to say: WOW! WOW! WOW!
What a collection and what a catalog. ANR rocks!
That would be a nice collection to get started with.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>The one I wish I could have is... >>
You could for the right bid and a second mortgage
Mrearlygold, I agree ANR has moved to the forefront with their auctions. Some great people too >>
I have several hundred thousand dollars consigned to the next two ANR auctions and potentially 7 figures in consignments to follow as a number of my customers are taking profits and in most cases redirecting those assets to other areas with me. As a dealer, of course I could have consigned these liquidations to any auction house as my customers have left me with the ultimate decision of where to place these coins. I chose ANR.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
CG
Several pre-1940 cons and patterns that were owned by Oliver Jung were consigned to the recent Heritage auction at the ANA Convention. Evidently, he "re-purchased' his 1792 Silver Center Copper Cent pattern. Next week, I will cover results for other pieces that he consigned.
Million Dollar Coins in ANA Auctions, Part 1
About ten years ago, on July 23, 2004, in New York, ANA auctioned the sale of Oliver Jung's type set, perhaps the best collection, up until that time, that had been designed as a comprehensive type set of U.S. coins.
BustMan: <<Awesome collection, terrific catalog. ANR continues to impress me. >>
CoHodK: <<ANR has the best pics in the business.>>
Kayne K West: <<these guys have become the leading auction company, IMO. >>
ANR was a great auction company. I really enjoyed covering their events for Numismatic News newspaper, especially the Oliver Jung sale.
CalGold: <<How come all of you "original" guys who are always so "unimpressed" by "dipped out" coins have been praising all of the dipped and retoned coins in this sale? >>
This is a terribly misleading remark. Did CalGold really view Oliver Jung's type set that was auctioned in 2004? Generally, Jung's coins scored very highly in the category of originality. This was one of the most original comprehensive type sets ever to be auctioned, probably THE most original! Indeed, many of the coins have terrific natural toning.
All this is relevant in 2014 because Jung returned to collecting at some point along the way. He acquired some pre-1840 U.S. coins and at least two patterns of 1792. A group of Jung's coins have been consigned to the Heritage ANA auction. I have already written about three of these coins, all of which I have personally examined. When I wrote about the Norweb 1797, I did not know for sure that Jung was the owner, though I had heard rumors to that effect. It is a shame that Jung did not continue and build another comprehensive type set. Why did he buy and consign, soon afterwards, a small group of type coins?
The Cutest of Apple Cheeks: The Jackman-Jung 1794 large cent
The Norweb 1797 Half Dollar, among the top five of the entire Draped Bust ‘Small Eagle’ type
<< <i>This is a terribly misleading remark. Did CalGold really view Oliver Jung's type set that was auctioned in 2004? Generally, Jung's coins scored very highly in the category of originality. This was one of the most original comprehensive type sets ever to be auctioned, probably THE most original! Indeed, many of the coins have terrific natural toning. >>
Let me get this straight. You have nothing better to do with your self than to dredge up a 10 year old thread in order to give someone grief over it.
Here is a link to the auction catalog. Anyone who is interested may peruse it at their leisure. LINK
I will confess to being an amateur hack and knew less 10 years ago than I do today, and perhaps instead of being critical or cynical I should have marveled at how a 1795 half dime could be brilliant silver after more than 200 years. Ditto a 1796 quarter with "original" finger prints. The 1804 dime that must have been hermetically sealed for 200 years. 1853 and 1858 dimes are smashingly original in brilliant silver. An 1860 Seated dollar which might have been original if it had an O mint mark but it doesn't. Just to name a few. There's the link, take a look.
Not withstanding my foolish false impressions about some of the coins in the collection, I will defer to Mr. Reynolds' expertise and will accept that all of those coins are superbly original. Hopefully he will take this opportunity to enlighten us as to how these wonder coins managed to retain their "day they were minted" brilliant silver appearance for 150 to 200 years.
That having been said, the set was well received, is way beyond anything I will ever own, and if I recall correctly it fetched something like $5 million but I might be wrong about that number since it was 10 years ago and it wasn't my collection or my money so why I would even remember the amount realized is beyond me.
CG
CalGold: <<Let me get this straight. You have nothing better to do with your self than to dredge up a 10 year old thread in order to give someone grief over it. >>
Obviously, Oliver Jung was 'in the news'! He started another type set, perhaps one that was devoted to just early U.S. coins and patterns. Though a work in progress, he decided to consign his current collection to the recently completed HA ANA auctioon. His coins were among the most newsworthy and otherwise important in that HA auction. Also, a few of the coins that were part of his comprehensive type set that was auctioned in 2004 became part of his collection that was just offered this month at the ANA collection.
The newsworthiness and educational value of this old thread and its relevance to current events are readily apparent. There is not a reason to believe I ever had the intention to "give someone grief."
CalGold: <<Not withstanding my foolish false impressions about some of the coins in the collection, I will defer to Mr. Reynolds' expertise and will accept that all of those coins are superbly original. Hopefully he will take this opportunity to enlighten us as to how these wonder coins managed to retain their "day they were minted" brilliant silver appearance for 150 to 200 years.
I honestly believe that there are few people who have greater ability to determine which coins have been dipped than I have. I did not say that CalGold was wrong about the reality that some of the coins in the Jung's set in 2004 had been dipped. I emphasized that his remark was terribly misleading. Someone who gave the matter serious thought would see the point.
The Eliasberg, Pittman and Norweb U.S. Coin Collections are among the top dozen of all time. Indeed, the Eliasberg Collection was the best. Even so, there were a significant number of coins in all three of these collections that had been dipped and/or were not entirely original for other reasons. A collection can score very highly in the category of originality even if a significant number of the coins included have obviously been dipped.
Has anyone ever completed a 1793-1930s type set of very high quality coins that is more original than Jung's type set? I have not seen one. In relative terms, Jung's set was the most original of such sets. It was not perfectly original.
Would CalGold point to instances where Babe Ruth struck out and hit fly balls while concluding that Babe Ruth was not a great baseball player?
Of course, I am not ignoring the blatantly dipped coins and I am not suggesting that people dip coins. I would hope that CalGold and I could both work to educate people about the value of natural toning and the harm done by dipping.
Understanding Classic U.S. Coins and Building Excellent Coin Collections, Part 2: Dipped Coins
It is worth noting that one of Jung's coins, a 1795 Half Dime that was certified, not by PCGS, as "MS-67-PL" scores very low in the category of originality. Please see lot #5547. Perhaps CalGold and I are in agreement that this coin has been blatantly dipped or worse. If an entire collection was filled with coins such as that half dime, I would not rave about it. If a collection consists of a large number of coins that are relatively original and terrific for additional reasons, then that collection may deserve a lot of praise even if some of the coins in the same collection are not wonderful. There were a few awful coins in the Eliasberg Collection and Babe Ruth had some bad games.
Broadstruck: <<3 of the members in this 10 year old thread might not chime in on your comment as they haven't been here in 5-7 years >>
This is not the first time that I have been under the impression, which I hope is wrong, that Broadstruck is more interested in laughing at me than he is in learning about coins.
I take seriously the remarks put forth by current and past members of this forum in their respective posts. There are collectors who very much wish to learn or to engage in healthy debates that have educational value. When I think that past members of this forum raise points that should be addressed and that I am qualified to address such points, I will often make efforts to address them. Besides, in some cases, when one member makes a point or asks a question, other readers have the same or a similar point on their respective minds yet do not post because they feel embarassed or do not have time.
Million Dollar Coins in ANA Auctions, Part 1
<< <i>I take seriously the remarks put forth by current and past members of this forum in their respective posts. There are collectors who very much wish to learn or to engage in healthy debates that have educational value. When I think that past members of this forum raise points that should be addressed and that I am qualified to address such points, I will often make efforts to address them. Besides, in some cases, when one member makes a point or asks a question, other readers have the same or a similar point on their respective minds yet do not post because they feel embarassed or do not have time.
>>
I like this statement.
Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots
Anyway, I looked the prices realized from that ANR sale, and while I looked at only a sampling of the lots (the ones of which pricing I might have some knowledge), I felt that most did not obviously bring weak money. In fact, I only saw a very small number of the lots whose realized price I thought were curiously low.
So...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Mr. Jung used to have his type set raw, in custom made acrylic display holders. I saw them. I held them and stared at the coins. I don't recall what exactly I thought of the coins at the time, but I do recall Laura wanting me to look at them for educational purposes.
Anyway, I looked the prices realized from that ANR sale, and while I looked at only a sampling of the lots (the ones of which pricing I might have some knowledge), I felt that most did not obviously bring weak money. In fact, I only saw a very small number of the lots whose realized price I thought were curiously low.
So...
EVP >>
That sounds more like Koshkarian than Jung