How I got lucky on Ebay!

rayovac

I recently had a problem on ebay where I won an ebay auction item, paid for said item, received item, was not happy with item, and returned item to seller for a refund. Seller would not provide a refund and stopped responding to my emails. I managed to get a full refund w/Square trade mediation but I feel as if I was lucky. I no longer have an issue with the seller. This post is not to "bash" the seller but rather see if there was a better way to handle these types of problems on ebay. For those who have had similar experiences perhaps you could comment on what I should have done. For those who have not yet had this kind of problem this may be useful information to have if something like this happens to you. I have listed major milestones for what happened:


01) 05/13 I won an Ebay auction for a raw MS68FB 1945D Mercury Dime
02) 05/14 I paid using paypal – price included insurance
03) 05/19 Seller emailed he received payment
04) 05/21 Seller emailed he mailed coin “Tue night”
05) 05/26 I received the coin. I was not happy with coin so I mailed it back. I emailed seller I was returning coin.
06) 05/26 Seller emailed “What was wrong?”
07) 05/26 I emailed seller coin was not MS68 nor was it FB.
08) 06/03 Seller emailed “My daughter recd it back in good condition & thanks.” The seller also stated the following:
”Our policy on payment refunds is customer fills out positive feed-back & Ellyn refunds the money.” The seller also stated:
“The coin i will send is absolutely nice. I re-reviewed the dime that you returned & the fb was ok- was not a fsb(i was not selling a full split bands) but, will !
send you a full split banded coin back.”

The coins middle band was “flat and shiny”. There was no band line evident.

09) 06/03 I emailed seller I wanted a refund and not a replacement coin.
10) 06/03 seller replied “THANK YOU RAY! ELLYN WILL PLACE REFUND TONIGHT OR FIRST THING IN THE MORN.”
11) 06/03 I placed positive feedback
11) 06/11 I emailed seller asking for status of my refund.
12) 06/12 seller responded: “WILL CHECK WITH ELLYN EARLY- SHE WILL BE BACK IN THE OFFICE ON MONDAY. IS THE FEED-BACK FILLED OUT- SHE ALSO LEAVES THE RETURN FEED-BACK ALSO AFTERWARDS”
13) 06/13 Emailed seller that I placed positive feedback 06/03.
14) 06/15 seller responded: ” ELLY JUST RETURNED & SHE IS CHECKING ON THIS. THANKS FOR YOUR PATIENCE”
15) 06/18 I emailed seller asking for status of refund
16) 06/21 I emailed seller asking for status of refund
17) 06/23 I emailed seller asking for status of refund
18) 06/23 I placed negative feedback for seller.
19) 06/2? Seller placed negative feedback for me - “
??) 06/23 I filed complaint with paypal
??) 06/23 I filed complaint with Square Trade
??) 06/23 I filed complaint with ebay

- Paypal said there was nothing they could do for me because the transaction was over 30 days old.

- Square Trade said they would contact the seller and see if something could be worked out. Seller was Square trade member and he went for the resolution proposed by the mediator:

01) Immediate refund to buyer
02) Negative feedback will be removed for buyer
03) Negative feedback will be removed for seller

I did receive the refund. Feedback will be moved in a couple of weeks

- Ebay responded with the following list of things I could do to resolve the problem:

“In this case, I would advise you to request contact information and
contact your seller by telephone if you have not done so already. eBay
encourages open and honest communication, and we believe that these
issues can often be resolved with a conversation. To request your
transaction partner's contact information, please follow the steps…”

” SquareTrade offers online dispute resolution to eBay members. You can
file an online complaint with SquareTrade free of charge. After you have
filed a complaint, SquareTrade will contact your trading partner and
encourage him or her to respond to your case. Once your trading partner
has responded, you can work to resolve your dispute through
SquareTrade's Online Dispute Resolution Service. A significant number of
complaints are directly resolved in this way. You can also request the
services of a professional mediator for a fee. You can file a complaint
with SquareTrade at the following address:….”

“PayPal will investigate any transaction where the PayPal service was
used to send payment. In many cases, PayPal may also be able to provide
reimbursement. Information about how to file a complaint with PayPal can
be found at:…..”

“If you are unable to resolve this matter with PayPal and you paid with
credit card, you may also want to consider contacting the company you
used to fund your payment. Most credit card issuers provide consumer
protection in instances of online fraud. To contact your issuer, call
their customer service number, which is usually printed on the back of
the card or on your monthly statement……”

” You may also want to consider filing a complaint with the Internet Fraud
Complaint Center (IFCC). The IFCC is a partnership between the Federal
Bureau of Investigation and the National White Collar Crime Center. The
IFCC will review and evaluate complaints and refer information to the
appropriate local, state, or federal agency. Every complaint that is
referred by the IFCC is sent to one or more law enforcement or
regulatory agencies that have jurisdiction over that matter. You can
file a complaint with the IFCC at:……”

“If you are unable to resolve the transaction after taking the steps
cited above, please file a Fraud Alert with eBay. A Fraud Alert can be
filed between 30 and 60 days after the end of the listing. To file a
Fraud Alert:”

Shamika

Ray,

Any chance you'll tell us who the seller is?

I don't think it's ethical for the seller to hold your refund hostage until you leave positive feedback. If the seller refunds your money and you leave negative feedback, that's wrong, but this possibility does not justify the sellers actions. It sure appears you went by the book none the less.

Glad to here you got your refund even though it took nearly a month.

Russ

Something I don't understand:



<< <i>11) 06/03 I placed positive feedback
18) 06/23 I placed negative feedback for seller. >>



If you had already placed positive feedback, how did you then place negative feedback?

If it were me in this situation, I would have filed a claim with PayPal as soon as the seller tried to hold me up for a refund with his "give me positive feedback first" garbage.

Russ, NCNE

rayovac

Russ,

01) I thought I had used auction tracker's leave feed back support to leave feedback. However, I can't find that auction in my auction tracker's list of purchases I made. I did subsequently try to use myebay to respond to feedback but it said I already had left feedback.

02) In myebay, buyer, I tried to set feedback the other day and it said I already had set feedback. That was after I had left negative feedback I think.

03) I just went back to myebay and the "status" of that transaction says "pay now". No feedback has been left.

04) I checked seller's feddback and did not see my feedback from 06/03.


It is possible that the feedback did not get set from auction tracker. I will have to see if there is a list of executed posts that I can look at. I agree that I should have hit the "panic" button at the time he said I have to post a positive feedback before the refund would be sent.


Ray

rayovac

Shamika,

I will not share the dealers name as that was not the reason for the post. The feedback for the seller was really good (1100+ postive feedbacks) with only 1 other negative feedback (2 were mutally withdrawn). So perhaps he was just having a bad day. Perhaps I just pissed him off. I just wanted to see if there was something else I could have/should have done. I also wanted to share with others on what you should do in this type of situation.

Ray Overby

rayovac

Russ,

If you can only post 1 feedback per ebay auction perhaps this was the sellers way of eliminating my ability to leave a negitive feedback. Your suggestion to "file a complaint" at that point is a good idea.

Another thing to keep in mind is that paypal will not accept a claim after 30 days so no matter what the seller is telling you (i.e. - be patient) you must file before the 30 days are up.

Ray Overby

solid

That is exactly what the seller was trying to do - prevent you from leaving a neg.

I wouldn't leave feedback until the transaction was successfully completed, including
receiving a refund if I returned their coin. I also wouldn't leave a neg if a seller
makes a prompt refund - maybe a neutral if they had grossly misrepresented the
coin (as in your case).

Sellers have the responsibility of conducting themselves in a professional businesslike
manner at all times. Most buyers would not leave a neg if everything is handled promptly
by the seller.

seanq

A seller who demands positive feedback before sending a refund is holding you for ransom, and I'd report any extortion attempt like that to SafeHarbob in a nanosecond.

More than once I've left a positive feedback on an auction where I returned the coin, but always *after* I received my refund, and only if the seller didn't make it a supreme hassle. Usually I'll word it along the lines of "Item returned for full, prompt refund; honest seller stands behind product" or even "Item not as described, returned for timely refund."

Sean Reynolds

Bochiman

Ray,

It is likely that others before you, and after you, will have the same problems and that is why there is only 1 other neg feedback.
The seller obviously uses refunds as a hostage to get positive feedback. Once left, cannot be changed by you.

So, if your positive feedback had stuck, you would have no way to post negative nor warn others about him when they checked him out prior to bidding.

I understand why you say you don't want to "out" the seller, but, please reconsider as there are more than a few warning signs here. I would hate to go through the same thing you did and I think others feel the same way.

Ron

PS...glad it worked out for you in the end but sorry you went through all that....maybe if someone before you had been able to leave more neg feedback, you wouldn't have bid/gone through so many problems.

hughesm1

Ray,
You do realise that "feedback extortion" is a violation of Ebay rules. Seller only allowing refund upon posting of positive feedback is an example of feedback extortion. I would really try to nail it hard to this seller for a blatent violation of policy.

BTW, the board ought to know the handle of this seller so we can avoid him/her like the plague. SERIOUSLY!!! Perhaps others would like to teach this SOB a lesson.

Myqqy

I will not share the dealers name as that was not the reason for the post.

Ray- I respect the fact that outing the dealer's name was not the intention of the thread- but it seems to me that if one starts a thread about a lame-o dealer who uses feedback extortion, every person who reads the thread is going to want a heads up about the ID of this dealer. I guess that includes me too....

Shamika

Ray,

You can always PM us and give the sellers eBay username. Wouldn't you want to know who this seller is if you were concerned about dealings with unethical sellers?