<< <i>All the more reason to be carrying "loaded and locked" in Rosemont.
Concealed weapons are not allowed in Cook County, although I agree with you (if you know what I mean ) >>
Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started... Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem.
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started... Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
Some did. Not all. Many knew it held a balance of power between the government and the people and that the fact that the people were armed would prevent tyranny.
Times have indeed changed when average people think that government stealing half of ones earnings is representative of a free country.
Get enough people to raise hell and something will be done about the security in the adjacent parking garage.
And if you're carrying large amounts of valuables, travel in groups with others and park near each other. Those who are walking alone are more likely to be targetted.
<< <i>Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
Barry, I suggest a thorough reading of the Federalist Papers. The second amendment was not just for the British and Indians.
I just spoke with Fred on the phone. He will be emailing me the updated list shortly. The total loss is 134 items valued at $514,651.
Apparently he asked a friend to watch his table and inventory while he conducted some business at other parts of the show. It was during that time that someone lifted his briefcase. He does have insurance, and is working on that.
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started... Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
that's almost funny it's so silly.
the ONLY thing gun control laws do is take the guns out of the control of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. The crooks will ALWAYS have guns.
Oh boy, if I was walking around with 500K just in my briefcase I would have my own security. The most I ever left laying around at a show was 10K in stuff and I had JB "mullethead" Stevens, Rick "showercap" Kay and John "holdyourtemper" Coinlieutenant riding shotgun for me---------------------BigE
Tom, I guess you have nothing to lose with comments like that since I've made it clear I'd never buy a coin from you after your last "misunderstanding."
<< <i>Tom, I guess you have nothing to lose with comments like that since I've made it clear I'd never buy a coin from you after your last "misunderstanding." >>
There was no misunderstanding barry. I wouldn't offer you anything. That's why you call it a misunderstanding. I was trying to avoid you because you're a jerk.
<< <i> There was no misunderstanding barry. I wouldn't offer you anything. That's why you call it a misunderstanding. I was trying to avoid you because you're a jerk.
Simple as that.
Tom >>
Date Posted: Mar/21/2004 2:06 PM Hi Barry,
I'm sorry, the deal isn't done ( I thought it would be by now). I have the coin here, but need to send my guy generic 20's ( and I sold out) to complete it.
It should be a few more days. I did get 2 early quarter eagles ( 1806/4 ExF45, and 1807 AU-53 both off the market for years and both in NGC holders) and I also have a real looker of an 1803/2 half eagle in NGC-58 which is a real 58.
Have those for now in early gold and the 1799 Eagle but can't sell the eagle for a couple of days.
I'll call in in a few days unless you want to pursue the other denominations with me, the call me please tomorrow. I will be gone all day tuesday in Ft Lauderdale ( have a dentist appt) but in most of monday, and wed.
Rgrds Tom Pilitowski 1-800-624-1870
Yes, I see how you wouldn't offer me anything. That's OK though. One of your other customers told me all I needed to know. Sorry folks. I'm done now.
Offered you one time. You sounded like an idiot ( I was right).
Ended with this pm
Date Posted: May/21/2004 12:01 PM """""""""All of this took place in March. I was waiting to hear from you, but it appears that you don't keep your word. Let's just forget about it. I find one elsewhere""""""""""
There there barry. Obviously you didn't leave a good enough impression on me to offer you first shot.
This is no good period. Strong arm robbery is one thing, the majic disappearing act is well, lets just say this needs to be solved quickly to put any doubts on the innocent to rest. It's a bad situation to be totally innocent and be there if something disappears like this. If it's not a quick open and shut case, all avenues end up being investigated. And if the insurance company does pay off, then they get to investigate some more. Jerry
Hey Goose- Damn, I guess I could've figured your response from your icons here. Seems your interest is not in coins but how to influence those who post here on how to vote. Are you a veteran? If so, tell me when and where you served. Usually, those with the biggest mouths are the ones who don't know what they're talking about.
Sandhawk- You seem to have a tough name. Are you bad? What have you done to justify your handle? You're certainly not like Goose, are you? I mean, you're a raptor, not a duck, like Goose, right?
Remember, the purpose of this thread was to put the word out about a coin dealer getting robbed and to let people know what coins to be on the lookout for. Can we keep the pissing contests on some other threads please?
Robert Getty - Lifetime project to complete the finest collection of 1872 dated coins.
what if i was a dealer who made my living buying trashed coins, getting 'em "fixed", then reselling them at double, triple, maybe 10x markups? & let's suppose after a while, i start to have trouble moving such garbage? maybe a LOT of trouble? is it possible i'd try & pull a scam where i claimed being robbed, then collect on insurance?
suppose, for example, a lot of my buddies just happen to be well-known coin-doctors? maybe my modus operandi is to scoop up all the "problem" ncs & anacs-net coins at major & regional auctions, crack 'em, & let my coin-doctor buddies have their way? then, i get em all re-slabed wherever i can, be it segs, pci, ntc, maybe the occasional pcgs or ngc coin gets thru. i'd probably use ebay to dump alot of this crap, maybe even some raw coins, etc. i'd definitely be at ever major show, & of course, my vest-pocket buddies who walk the floor would help me out by seeking out inexperienced new dealers ("fresh meat") & moving the stuff.
is it possible?
of course, i'd have to be careful. have a close-knit network of buddies in the coin-doctoring business who maybe are personal friends w/ some of the good folks over at ntc & segs. hmmmm..., probably would get trusted family members in on the deal, right? like my son-in-law, for example. NO major dealers, only vest-pocket guys, & no written contracts either.
but, let's also suppose that this works out great for a couple years, the coin doctors manage to pull a few nice fixes, i make big bucks on some coins. cash flow is great. so, i get greedy, start "reaching" for some really bad coins, stuff that even my coin-doctor buddies, can't fix. holes can be plugged only so well, only so much wacky toning is tolerable! after a couple years of this m-o, i start to rack up big bills. inventory just doesn't move as fast as it used to. some people are catching on, & word spreads that you really can't trust old karl's coins. whispered rumors about deals w/ the owners of certain slab co's gone bad. people wanting to collect on certain debts.
maybe, just maybe, i'd arrange for certain coins to "disappear", you know, get "stolen". untraceable coins that i'm too deep into, certain coins in segs slabs, or ntc slabs, where i had to pay off the co. to get certain grades. and after i collect on the insurance $ & remove the debts, i could always crack the coins out later, change their color/appearance again, & maybe they would show up on ebay looking totally different, & somehow in the estate of some college girl in tallahassee.
Boy, a guy loses over $500,000 worth of stuff and all two guys can do is get in a pissing contest. What jerks. Too bad it wasn't their stuff. JMHO. steve
I am a little surprised that 87 posted messages so far and not one lays the "blame" where it belongs. At the dealer. If he had been robbed at gunpoint that's one matter but his walked away leaving someone else to watch over his coins worth a reported $500,000.
Guys, how many of you tap your butt periodically to make sure your wallet is still there? Does it have $500,000 in there? $50,000? My point is you take care and protect your wallet why not your half million coin inventory?
I don't know the dealer but if has has been around 40 years as some claim he knows the risks. He has no one but himself to blame for his carelessness.
That said I hope he recovers his coins and people learn from his experience. It's not the creepy drunk guy loitering in the shadows of the convention hall you have to fear but the well groomed/dressed guy distracting you at a show while his accomplice swipes a big boy blue box on your back table.
I am a little surprised that 87 posted messages so far and not one lays the "blame" where it belongs. At the dealer. If he had been robbed at gunpoint that's one matter but his walked away leaving someone else to watch over his coins worth a reported $500,000.
Guys, how many of you tap your butt periodically to make sure your wallet is still there? Does it have $500,000 in there? $50,000? My point is you take care and protect your wallet why not your half million coin inventory?
I don't know the dealer but if has has been around 40 years as some claim he knows the risks. He has no one but himself to blame for his carelessness.
That said I hope he recovers his coins and people learn from his experience. It's not the creepy drunk guy loitering in the shadows of the convention hall you have to fear but the well groomed/dressed guy distracting you at a show while his accomplice swipes a big boy blue box on your back table. >>
Yep, that too and whole lot more fall under suspicion if it's not open and shut. Jerry
Yep- let's keep it on the topic of coins-not political and/or religious stuff. I sure as hell didn't instigate this. I notice I haven't received a response from the the two "bad asses" I addressed. All talk and no walk. There's nothing I would like better than an elimination of non-coin topics here-I've made my views evident on this on numerous previous comments.
I am simply amazed at some of the responses here. This dealer was a victim of grand larceny, and all some of you can do is try to lay blame on the dealer. Dealers rountinely leave their table to take care of business in other parts of the show. In this case, Fred had to pick up and pay for some auction lots.
I can bicker and argue with the best of them, and a lot of times my position is the exact opposite of dealer's positions on certain issues. But when it comes to a dealer being ripped off, I would think that all numismatists would get behind him and do what they could to help him. Sadly, this obviously isn't the case.
Now, Sandhawk-how do you know that I'm a Postal retiree? Are you spyin' on me or something? You still haven't explained your tough handle. Maybe you're a biker or something. I'll just bet you've never seen a single day of military service. But then, again, maybe you were a Boy Scout. K6az-you are absolutely right-let's go ahead and make fun of the guy because he had the audacity and ignorance to slab with a useless outfit like SEGS. Of course, this company isn't worth sh**. The PCGS and NGC "elitists" here agree-but, as a collector of 45+ years, and someone who knows how to grade on my own, I think I can grade with the best of them. It's too bad that a lot of collectors are deluded into believing what's printed on that PCGS or NGC slab just has to be correct. Fred is not a shyster or a crook. He, too, believes that you have to judge the coin and not the slab.
Dealers rountinely leave their table to take care of business in other parts of the show. In this case, Fred had to pick up and pay for some auction lots.
Apparently he asked a friend to watch his table and inventory while he conducted some business at other parts of the show. It was during that time that someone lifted his briefcase.
This thread has more twists and turns than a Six Flags roller coaster!
Welcome back, Karl, and interesting post!
I am sorry that the dealer was ripped. The inventory struck me as being unusual, but I will say no more.
As for the gun issue, I am not a gun person by nature and doubt that it would have helped in this case. In fact, there are few coin ripping scenarios that I can envision a gun being helpful. I do not have nearly as good an imagination as Karl.
The theft is a real shame. My table was up front when Fred reported the crime, right by the guards. They could have shut down the show, sealed off the exits and started searching. Unfortunately they just stood around wondering what to do. James Taylor from ICG, upon hearing about the theft, hustled around the room trying to alert everyone what the briefcase looked like, and should be given tons of praise here.
The show room was held in a large area with the coin section cordoned off with drapes. There was no real security if someone got behind the curtians.
I hope the insurance will cover Fred, although, since there is a question of neglegence, it may be difficult. The fellow entrusted with watchching Fred's stuff should be held accountable somewhat. Too often in the hustle to do ordinary business we overlook some security issues. I have no trouble watching people's cases or having them watch mine during a show. Do dealers consider this a binding obligation to protect the other persons property and accept liability? I don't think so.
Comments
<< <i>All the more reason to be carrying "loaded and locked" in Rosemont.
Concealed weapons are not allowed in Cook County, although I agree with you (if you know what I mean
Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us!
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started...
Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem.
I never did here anthing else on the $80,000 SLQ that was hiested at FUN.
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started...
Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
Some did. Not all. Many knew it held a balance of power between the government and the people and that the fact that the people were armed would prevent tyranny.
Times have indeed changed when average people think that government stealing half of ones earnings is representative of a free country.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
And if you're carrying large amounts of valuables, travel in groups with others and park near each other. Those who are walking alone are more likely to be targetted.
<< <i>Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
Barry, I suggest a thorough reading of the Federalist Papers. The second amendment was not just for the British and Indians.
Apparently he asked a friend to watch his table and inventory while he conducted some business at other parts of the show. It was during that time that someone lifted his briefcase. He does have insurance, and is working on that.
As soon as I get the updated list I will post it.
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone forgot to tell the crooks, now their the only ones with guns! It pisses me off when I think about these gun control idiots taking away the right our forefathers gave us! >>
We're getting OT here, but since you started...
Our forefathers were thinking of the right to bear arms for self-protection from Indians, British, etc. There were no developed police forces for each town or sufficient military to protect the people. Times have changed. What other first-world country has so much violent crime? None. Gun nuts like you only perpetuate the problem. >>
that's almost funny it's so silly.
the ONLY thing gun control laws do is take the guns out of the control of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. The crooks will ALWAYS have guns.
<< <i>the ONLY thing gun control laws do is take the guns out of the control of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. The crooks will ALWAYS have guns. >>
Not if it's the death penalty for possession.
Stolen Coins
<< <i>
<< <i>the ONLY thing gun control laws do is take the guns out of the control of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. The crooks will ALWAYS have guns. >>
Not if it's the death penalty for possession. >>
barry you are truly an idiot. Try a different country with that attitude.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>barry you are truly an idiot. Try a different country with that attitude. >>
Tom,
You gotta learn to let it out!! Don't keep your emotions bottled up!!
<< <i>
<< <i>barry you are truly an idiot. Try a different country with that attitude. >>
Tom,
You gotta learn to let it out!! Don't keep your emotions bottled up!!
John, I could easily go a lot further than that. I'm just being factual.
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Here is the updated list:
Stolen Coins >>
Obviously this one needs to be passed around in as many places as possible.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Tom, I guess you have nothing to lose with comments like that since I've made it clear I'd never buy a coin from you after your last "misunderstanding." >>
There was no misunderstanding barry. I wouldn't offer you anything. That's why you call it a misunderstanding. I was trying to avoid you because you're a jerk.
Simple as that.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
It would do everyone good to revisit the Colonel's tips.
<< <i>
There was no misunderstanding barry. I wouldn't offer you anything. That's why you call it a misunderstanding. I was trying to avoid you because you're a jerk.
Simple as that.
Tom >>
Date Posted: Mar/21/2004 2:06 PM
Hi Barry,
I'm sorry, the deal isn't done ( I thought it would be by now). I have the coin here, but need to send my guy generic 20's ( and I sold out) to complete it.
It should be a few more days. I did get 2 early quarter eagles ( 1806/4 ExF45, and 1807 AU-53 both off the market for years and both in NGC holders) and I also have a real looker of an 1803/2 half eagle in NGC-58 which is a real 58.
Have those for now in early gold and the 1799 Eagle but can't sell the eagle for a couple of days.
I'll call in in a few days unless you want to pursue the other denominations with me, the call me please tomorrow. I will be gone all day tuesday in Ft Lauderdale ( have a dentist appt) but in most of monday, and wed.
Rgrds
Tom Pilitowski
1-800-624-1870
Yes, I see how you wouldn't offer me anything. That's OK though. One of your other customers told me all I needed to know.
Sorry folks. I'm done now.
Ended with this pm
Date Posted: May/21/2004 12:01 PM
"""""""""All of this took place in March. I was waiting to hear from you, but it appears that you don't keep your word. Let's just forget about it. I find one elsewhere""""""""""
There there barry. Obviously you didn't leave a good enough impression on me to offer you first shot.
Ceeya
That looks pretty done to me.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Damn, I guess I could've figured your response from your icons here. Seems your interest is not in coins but how to influence those who post here on how to vote. Are you a veteran? If so, tell me when and where you served. Usually, those with the biggest mouths are the ones who don't know what they're talking about.
You seem to have a tough name. Are you bad? What have you done to justify your handle? You're certainly not like Goose, are you? I mean, you're a raptor, not a duck, like Goose, right?
out about a coin dealer getting robbed and to let people know
what coins to be on the lookout for. Can we keep the pissing contests
on some other threads please?
suppose, for example, a lot of my buddies just happen to be well-known coin-doctors? maybe my modus operandi is to scoop up all the "problem" ncs & anacs-net coins at major & regional auctions, crack 'em, & let my coin-doctor buddies have their way? then, i get em all re-slabed wherever i can, be it segs, pci, ntc, maybe the occasional pcgs or ngc coin gets thru. i'd probably use ebay to dump alot of this crap, maybe even some raw coins, etc. i'd definitely be at ever major show, & of course, my vest-pocket buddies who walk the floor would help me out by seeking out inexperienced new dealers ("fresh meat") & moving the stuff.
is it possible?
of course, i'd have to be careful. have a close-knit network of buddies in the coin-doctoring business who maybe are personal friends w/ some of the good folks over at ntc & segs. hmmmm..., probably would get trusted family members in on the deal, right? like my son-in-law, for example. NO major dealers, only vest-pocket guys, & no written contracts either.
but, let's also suppose that this works out great for a couple years, the coin doctors manage to pull a few nice fixes, i make big bucks on some coins. cash flow is great. so, i get greedy, start "reaching" for some really bad coins, stuff that even my coin-doctor buddies, can't fix. holes can be plugged only so well, only so much wacky toning is tolerable! after a couple years of this m-o, i start to rack up big bills. inventory just doesn't move as fast as it used to. some people are catching on, & word spreads that you really can't trust old karl's coins. whispered rumors about deals w/ the owners of certain slab co's gone bad. people wanting to collect on certain debts.
maybe, just maybe, i'd arrange for certain coins to "disappear", you know, get "stolen". untraceable coins that i'm too deep into, certain coins in segs slabs, or ntc slabs, where i had to pay off the co. to get certain grades. and after i collect on the insurance $ & remove the debts, i could always crack the coins out later, change their color/appearance again, & maybe they would show up on ebay looking totally different, & somehow in the estate of some college girl in tallahassee.
yeah, i know, the story is too farfetched, right?
danged right it is.
K S
Are you trying to say something?
Russ, NCNE
Cmon now
Rgrds
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>That's why I have posted it on my site. Feel free to pass that link around, especially to people who don't post here. >>
On your site, is the next to last column the value? There isn't a key, so I wasn't sure.
Also, are you going to post cert #'s if known?
I am a little surprised that 87 posted messages so far and not one lays the "blame" where it belongs. At the dealer. If he had been robbed at gunpoint that's one matter but his walked away leaving someone else to watch over his coins worth a reported $500,000.
Guys, how many of you tap your butt periodically to make sure your wallet is still there? Does it have $500,000 in there? $50,000? My point is you take care and protect your wallet why not your half million coin inventory?
I don't know the dealer but if has has been around 40 years as some claim he knows the risks. He has no one but himself to blame for his carelessness.
That said I hope he recovers his coins and people learn from his experience. It's not the creepy drunk guy loitering in the shadows of the convention hall you have to fear but the well groomed/dressed guy distracting you at a show while his accomplice swipes a big boy blue box on your back table.
<< <i>OK, what happen is a sad thing, but...
I am a little surprised that 87 posted messages so far and not one lays the "blame" where it belongs. At the dealer. If he had been robbed at gunpoint that's one matter but his walked away leaving someone else to watch over his coins worth a reported $500,000.
Guys, how many of you tap your butt periodically to make sure your wallet is still there? Does it have $500,000 in there? $50,000? My point is you take care and protect your wallet why not your half million coin inventory?
I don't know the dealer but if has has been around 40 years as some claim he knows the risks. He has no one but himself to blame for his carelessness.
That said I hope he recovers his coins and people learn from his experience. It's not the creepy drunk guy loitering in the shadows of the convention hall you have to fear but the well groomed/dressed guy distracting you at a show while his accomplice swipes a big boy blue box on your back table. >>
Yep, that too and whole lot more fall under suspicion if it's not open and shut. Jerry
I cant say on this board what I would pay $500,000 to have done to you. Keep an eye out for these, they are not common by any means.
I DID comment many times about the "weak" security at these multi-million dollar shows. what a shame. Whoever it was, wont get far.
Jerry, it can happen to anyone. Even when you think it is impossible and improbable to get robbed.
<< <i>On your site, is the next to last column the value? There isn't a key, so I wasn't sure.
Also, are you going to post cert #'s if known? >>
Yes, those are the values. As far as certification numbers, at this time they are not available.
I can bicker and argue with the best of them, and a lot of times my position is the exact opposite of dealer's positions on certain issues. But when it comes to a dealer being ripped off, I would think that all numismatists would get behind him and do what they could to help him. Sadly, this obviously isn't the case.
K6az-you are absolutely right-let's go ahead and make fun of the guy because he had the audacity and ignorance to slab with a useless outfit like SEGS. Of course, this company isn't worth sh**. The PCGS and NGC "elitists" here agree-but, as a collector of 45+ years, and someone who knows how to grade on my own, I think I can grade with the best of them. It's too bad that a lot of collectors are deluded into believing what's printed on that PCGS or NGC slab just has to be correct. Fred is not a shyster or a crook. He, too, believes that you have to judge the coin and not the slab.
but stealthy theft is harder to prevent
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Apparently he asked a friend to watch his table and inventory while he conducted some business at other parts of the show. It was during that time that someone lifted his briefcase.
So, what does this "friend" have to say about it?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Welcome back, Karl, and interesting post!
I am sorry that the dealer was ripped. The inventory struck me as being unusual, but I will say no more.
As for the gun issue, I am not a gun person by nature and doubt that it would have helped in this case. In fact, there are few coin ripping scenarios that I can envision a gun being helpful. I do not have nearly as good an imagination as Karl.
The show room was held in a large area with the coin section cordoned off with drapes. There was no real security if someone got behind the curtians.
I hope the insurance will cover Fred, although, since there is a question of neglegence, it may be difficult. The fellow entrusted with watchching Fred's stuff should be held accountable somewhat. Too often in the hustle to do ordinary business we overlook some security issues. I have no trouble watching people's cases or having them watch mine during a show. Do dealers consider this a binding obligation to protect the other persons property and accept liability? I don't think so.