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LINCOLN CENTS GO FOR BIG BUCKS AT ANR AUCTION


How about an1909 s VDB in PCGS MS 65 RED for $12,000 plus the juice or a 1914 in 66 red for $8,000 plus the juice
I liked the 1919 in ms 68 red for $11,000 plus the juice but I already owned it once.
I thought the 1915 D in 66 red at $16,000 plus the juice was too rich for my blood but I don't know Jack anymore.
A 1924 in 66 red at $4,200 seemed like a bargain
What do you think ?

Stewart

Comments

  • This crazy lincoln cent PCGS registry stuff is getting out of hand. Prices are unfounded, and will seem ridiculous in a few years, I think. The 1917 MS68RD with the reverse scratch for $23,000 with the juice??? DUMB, IMO. The 1919 MS68's were going for $5000 JUST TWO YEARS AGO. Now this one sold for more than double? Must be a lot of dumb money going around, because this is crazy, I think. I bid $21,500 for the 1917, thinking I would get it and tee off the registry group, and then I was worried I would have to buy it, knowing it was a outrageous price for it. But it actually was bid much higher. Good time to sell your set, Stewart.
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cool! Glad to know I'm not the only one paying thru the nose! image
  • Stewart,

    What did you think of the 17-P in 68Rd? Heard it was nowhere near the 19-P in 68Rd.
    Prices just continue to go higher and higher. Couldn't believe the price of the 14-P. Will the insanity ever stop?

    Joshua
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    Good time to sell your set, Stewart.

    Seems like we've been telling him that for 3 years now, yet the prices just keep going higher image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    i WAS ONE of the few WHO DIDN'T THINK THE 17 p was a bad coin.I thought it could regrade as a 67 but it was in a 68 holder.The 19 P was a nice 68 but then I made 13 of them.The 18 P was a very nice 67.

    Stewart
  • The 17-P pretty expensive at $23,000 plus the juice for questionable 68.

    I'm sure that the 18-P and 19-P found a good home.

    By the way if we research the genealogy of all 19-P's in 68/69 won't they pretty much all come back to you?


    joshua
  • lloydmincy- You are a riot! You bid $21,500 for the 1917 and then state that 23,000 was a DUMB bid. That is 5% over your bid. What does that make you? Was it DUMB due to the fact that you got outbid? I take it you are not now able to buy any coins because the DUMB MONEY is outbidding you at every turn. You best look in a mirror while you are calling everyone outbidding you DUMB. I was the DUMB guy that purchased the 1914 that will very likely end up in a 67RD hold very soon. I was also the "almost DUMB" underbidder on the 1909-S VDB that was a lock high end 66RD coin. You are entitled to your opinions, but if you insist on blasting other people for something you obviously do not understand, make sure you are ready to take fire back.
    David Schweitz
  • BearBear Posts: 18,953 ✭✭✭
    Geez, If I was gonna pay all that money, I would at least

    want a quarter or maybe a half dollar. Not some measely old penney.image
    There once was a place called
    Camelotimage
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    Hey David:

    I never said I was SMART bidding on the 1917. (I was bored, and just was having fun). Did it, then I took it like a man, and hoped I got outbid. I didnt really want it. Not a true lincoln cent man... don't think they are that pretty of a coin. I just think the prices have really jumped, and quite frankly, mad I didnt buy the 1919's Angel Dee had (Andy) a couple years ago when I could of. Again, not jealous or anything, just amazed the price increases, and how much my own collection has basically doubled in the past couple years. I want to hold all my stuff forever, but gosh, could make a ton...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    David:

    What if PCGS keeps getting more coins (let's say lincolns) from other grading services, and also upgrade a bit of their own? Does that not make the particular grades more common, (or saturated is the word),then not as desirable as the pop goes up? Doesnt matter to me, but say there are 2 1917 MS68RD's then 3 years from now, 5? How does PCGS protect the investment of others, vs. keeping the acct receivables and profits for dealers going??? Just a thought. Again, it is all fun for me, but also an interesting marketing game going on in this hot market, with most everyone buying to collect, OR TO GET AN UPGRADE...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • Glad you clarified that. Sorry I took offence to your comment and lashed out at you but I vehemently disagree with your position. I just don't think it is polite to make fun of people because they want a coin bad enough to pay what you may think is too much money. Many of these coins only come up for sale once every few years if that. The fact is that there is a great deal of money chasing these very scarce coins. Time is money to most of these guys who go after the big ticket items and having to take the time to follow auctions for year after year is not worth saving a few bucks today by letting these coins sell for what you may think is a more reasonable price.
    David Schweitz
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    David:

    I guess I shouldnt say dumb money, just higher prices. In a sense, I am personally estatic there are more collectors of coins, and maybe (hopefully) more exposure to the world of U.S. numismatics. BTW, in case you want to match a face with me, I am the one who bought the MS64BN 1922 No D from Andy two years back at LBeach in June 2002, and the 1864 L IHC PR64RB at FUN 2003...Bid heavy against BLAY same auction for the MS68 1899 IHC (we both gave up)... Do you remember me??? Wife's yelling at me, gotta go...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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  • Getting upgrades on copper, and especially Lincoln's, right now is a very difficult proposition. PCGS is grading these as tough or tougher than they ever have in their 18 year history IMO. Sure you can find a few coins that they graded too tight in the past, but generally speaking, most Lincoln cents that you crack out today would be lucky to come back the same grade again let alone upgrade IMO. Ask Stewart for a second opinion and see what he has to say. So I don't feel you have much to worry about concerning the populations exploding any time soon.
    David Schweitz
  • Lloyd- Yes, now I remember you. OK, we can agree that higher prices are what is going on now. Just please leave the word DUMB out of itimage. Unless you are a fortune teller, how could you know what is going to happen in the future? I sure couldn't venture a guess. What may seem like high prices to you right now may turn out to be bargains in a few years. You obviously thought that 1919-S that Andy had was too much money a few years ago. By your own admission, you wish you had purchased it now. You may be correct that the market will head south from here, but does anyone really know? If you really feel that way, I would recommend selling out now. Send me your coins and I will be happy to make you a fair offer on your holdings.
    David Schweitz
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to hijack the thread, but it's not just Lincoln Cents. A nice Large Dentil Quarter in PC 3 went for $7,200 (hammer), and a really nice toned (but not monster toned) 1884 quarter (on which I bid) in PC 5 went for $2,200 (hammer).

    Now I know late date Seated Quarters. The high bidder paid strong, but not stupid, money for this coin in a 6 holder (and who knows how many times he's going to have to submit the coin before it upgrades, IF it upgrades in the first place). I hope the high bidder is a collector, because a dealer will have too much into the coin to make any money on it.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    David:

    I HOPE the market stays flat or goes higher. I am a financial planner, and have seen the hoopla in stocks 1995-1999, then watch the bottom fall. Old timers have said it has happended in the coin market before. But I believe in the old simple economics of supply and demand. If more collectors, and supply stays the same or shrinks... then the chart goes up. I do feel that is the rare coin market. High valuations for internet stocks and tech stocks in the late 90's DID NOT JUSTIFY THE HIGH PRICES TO ME. I believe the rare coin market is different... Like land, dates before 2004..."they're not making any more!!!". I am NOT bearish, just the QUICK rise is "surprising".
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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  • haletjhaletj Posts: 2,192
    The Lincoln Cents I had wanted went way cheap. I didn't bid because I thought I didn't have enough money at the moment, but I might have, 64rd 12-s and 64rd 16-s at only $500 or $600 something. image
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Obviously no trend will go on forever and increasing Lincoln prices will be no exception. But this
    needs to be seen in context. Usually when something goes up because of speculative demand
    and hype it's because people can obtain it in large quantity and promote it. It is this very quantity
    which is the eventual undoing of the bubble whether its tulip bulbs or tech stocks. Things which
    exist in large number or can be replicated unendingly will eventually become too common to support
    rising prices which will cause those who bought on speculation to sell and the market will collapse.

    Lincoln cents fit none of these considerations. There are not large numbers of high grade coins in
    existence and beyond doubt no one is making more, there does not appear to be a significant a-
    mount of speculative demand, and they can't be bought in large quantity in order to promote them.

    So why have prices gone crazy? Simply because collectors are seeking quality and can do it at any
    level they feel comfortable with and can afford. This is so much of the attraction of coins today; that
    it's possible to afford fine collections on a shoe string, that it's possible to afford rare coins for little
    cost, that world class coin collections can be assembled for study at great effort and a huge amount
    of fun even by the collector of average means.

    Prices have gone crazy because people finally have the means to acquire these coins which were
    utterly impossible before the internet. The grading services, far from being the enemy of these mar-
    kets, have actually made them possible by identifying the finest coins so collectors can find them.
    While the naysayers will claim that the grading services will always "make more", even this is bene-
    ficial to the markets by making more coins available to keep people in the hunt for upgrades.

    It's obvious that these are still the early days of these markets simply because the rare late dates
    are so very much cheaper than even the more common earlier dates. Since it is collectors who are
    paying these "crazy prices" they'll need one of each so prices will be based on rarity not age.

    If one wants to worry about these markets then the trend to worry about is the trend toward buy-
    ing the finest one can afford or find. When this trend falters thre can be a serious collapse in the
    prices of high grade coins, until then we'll just have to see what happens...
    Tempus fugit.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lloydmincy: You bid over $20,000.00 because you were bored?

    Now, that is a new one that I have never heard before! image

    (ok I did add all the zeros for maximum effect)

    By the way, coins prices in the past, can and frequently risen in prices in a dizzying manner. 100% and 200% increases in a matter of months is not unheard of. Then again price drops of 95% in a single week has also been well documented.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The quest for the ultra-grade coins mystifies me. The premiums paid for these coins is simply not justified by their slightly better appearance. This is a game for collectors with too much money and out-of-control egos.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    Gentlemen,
    I have really enjoyed reading this thread because the participants are some of the top owners of Lincoln cent collections. I too own these coins, but at a different level. I would be interested to hear your comments concerning a couple of the rare Lincoln proofs, the 1909VDB and the 1990 no S. Do you currently own them? If not, do you have a desire to acquire them? How do these two coins rate in your mind compared to aquiring the condition rarities that are discussed in this thread? Thanks for your comments.

    Steve image


  • 291fifth,

    I respect your opinion and believe there is some merit in your comment. There certainly is a component of ego involved with what is happening in the Lincoln market. I would qualify that, however, by stating that if you want to collect high end Lincolns you must play the game with those that are in it for ego and the best GPA. I have a passion for Lincolns that developed LONG before there was a registry. I am putting together another set, but want just PQ coins for this set. Not numbers, but PQ coins. Now, many times PQ coins come with low pop and high number. Isn't that why there are third party grading services. Contrary to a lot of the chatter on these boards, the TPGs DO get it right a lot of the time. Anyway, for truly the best of the best (not just the lowest pop) I must still compete with others with different motivations. That's why I bought the 15-D. That's why I didn't buy the 17-P (MS68, Pop 2). That's why, after discussing it with Stewart, I didn't buy the 11-P.

    Anyway, just wanted to let you know that all us Lincoln collectors aren't motivated in the same way. To paint us all with a broad brush would be inaccurate.

    Jack

  • Oreville:

    Yes bored.

    Steve, I have a 1990 No S proof, but I would LOVE to have one in its original holder. I am a "story" coin collector.... Key dates, error, etc. The only lincolns I have are, well, self explanatory:

    1909-s VDB PCGS MS66 RD
    1914-d PCGS MS65RD
    1922 NO D Strong Reverse PCGS MS64BN
    1922 NO D Weak Reverse PCGS MS63RED BROWN....SORRY NOT RED (Bought accidently, bored)
    1944 STEEL Net MS60 (missed 1943-s COPPER at ANR earlier this year. still mad. No Philly copper 43 is safe at any auction as long as I know about it...).
    1955/1955 PCGS MS65RD (will buy more if I am bored)
    1990 NO S Proof

    I THOUGHT about adding the only other proof I would want in lincoln...1909 VDB MS66RD, but have decided otherwise. But all I have seen (two) are awesome.

    If my wife would let me, may go after something "unique" in Baltimore.... Just a hint......we're both going...checking out WASH D.C. and the "soon to close" coin exhibits at Smithsonian, and Baltimore...

    ----------Lloyd
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>1922 NO D Weak Reverse PCGS MS63RD (Bought accidently, bored) >>



    Good God! I can only dream of being in this position.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,714 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> Doesnt matter to me, but say there are 2 1917 MS68RD's then 3 years from now, 5? How does PCGS protect the investment of others, vs. keeping the acct receivables and profits for dealers going??? >>



    Perhaps I'm out of place here, or just don't understand, but is it PCGS' responsibility to "protect" the investment of collectors to the extent of ensuring that there aren't more than a certain number of coins of MSXX grade? I think if there is only one, then it's PCGS' responsibility to grade only one, on the other hand, if there are 5 or 10, then there should be 5 or 10 (assuming that they all get submitted to PCGS).

    Just my humble opinion. That and a couple quarters will get you a cup of coffee at any diner in townimage
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Oreville:

    Yes bored.

    Steve, I have a 1990 No S proof, but I would LOVE to have one in its original holder.

    ----------Lloyd >>



    Lloyd, realistically you wouldn't want to keep a 1990 No S proof in its original mint proof packaging. Too much risk of it deteriorating and without a firm grade from PCGS or NGC you risk losing value over time. IMHO there is nothing special seeing this rare coin combined with the other "normal" 1990s denominations in a Proof Set. Thanks and good luck with your Lincoln cent pursuits. Steve image
  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861
    Sorry Shamika, didnt mean to sound pompous. I bid on a lot of coins that I just like to see what they go for, and at a price I say "Sure, I'll take it". It is a great hobby, that I think is starting to get more recognition from its "mini-club". Major press like the finding of the 1913 Nickel, 1933 $20 Eagle auction, the 1794 Specimen Dollar, the find of the 1866 NO MOTTO dollar, (my daughter's KINDERGARTEN CHRISTIAN SCHOOL MAGAZINE HAD A SMALL ARTICLE ABOUT IT WITH AN EXPLANATION OF THE NO "IN GOD WE TRUST" MOTTO!! Can you believe that???) and the changing of the designs on current coinage, etc. etc. etc. gets more interest and exposure WITH NUMISMATICS TODAY. Someday, rookies and newbies (added every day) will say in regards to us, "Wow, those guys have been around, and really know stuff about the hobby!!!". Happy collecting.

    -------------Lloyd

    Steve, you are probably right, but it seems the 1990 No S would be worth more with the others in the set. IMO, I'd pay more!!!!!!!! It's sunny out, what am I doing on the computer now...!??? (smile)
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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  • merz2merz2 Posts: 2,474
    Stewart
    I've read this thread with great interest.I too am a longtime Lincoln collector.While addmittedly not in the same catagory as you.I have seen even in the lower grades,the prices realized keep going up.We can all agree,I think the "Lincoln Collectors" are out to complete their sets in as good a grade as $'s will allow.As 2009 approaches I believe it will get even more intense.I for one can't wait to see what the Mint comes up with to comemorate 100 yrs.
    Don
    Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
    291Fifth:

    Your quote:

    <<<<<<<<< The quest for the ultra-grade coins mystifies me. The premiums paid for these coins is simply not justified by their slightly better appearance. This is a game for collectors with too much money and out-of-control egos. >>>>>>>

    I do not agree with you. Many of the buyers might simply being a type collector wanting just one very wonderful lincoln cent for ther type set, or a collector filling in the final coin to complete their set. True, some collectors may have too much money OR large egos but I have rarely seen the combination of both. In fact, it seems that the collector with (I prefer the term STRONG ego) rarely overdoes it with the buying of great condition rarities (in other denominations as well) and in fact, are quite shrewd in their purchases.

    If you love lincoln cents or any specific series there is eventually a tendency to someday make a move to own the very best within your budget. That is not ego, that is lust. Yes, collectors do develop lust for certain coins and if the budget is available then the test becomes.................well you only live once?
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!


  • Oreville,

    Now that you've said it, I have to agree. For me it's not so much an ego thing, but lust would be a very good word to describe my motivations. I saw that 15-D and had to have it. Unfortunately I had to compete against others that have way more money than I do!
  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,343 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I got started collecting back in 1961. Filling Whitman folders and albums was great fun when there was some chance of finding something in circulation. Admittedly, most of what was found in circulation would be laughed at today.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,656 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The quest for the ultra-grade coins mystifies me. The premiums paid for these coins is simply not justified by their slightly better appearance. This is a game for collectors with too much money and out-of-control egos. >>



    The high grade coins went up in value first, because that is where supply couldn't satisfy
    demand. While the premiums on the highest grades can be significant in any hot series
    they always reflect supply and demand. There are many specific reasons that people search
    for the highest grade coins but so long as people increasingly want the best there will be
    demand for such coins.

    Perhaps it's just the grading services and the internet which have made manifest the nat-
    ural tendency of collectors to seek the best example they can find.
    Tempus fugit.
  • I dont think its big ego's at all.

    But PCGS, like I've said it before...what INCREDIBLE marketers!!!!!!! Get this registry set thing going, don't allow any other grading service coins, and start the fever. It's like you have goals and the drive to compete for placement on the registry lists. What a concept. PCGS is NOT DUMB. (To use my word!).
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

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