52T Mantle Auction Results PSA, GAI & BVG 5's

Stone193

This is kind of interesting. Three 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle graded 5's closed on ebay this week. One would automatically assume that the PSA 5 would garner the highest price. But, in fact, the BVG did:
52T PSA 5 - 5600$
52T GAI 5 - 6600$
52T BVG 5 - 8000$
I brought this up not to debate the relative merits of the different grading companies as such but to look at the fact that a BVG 5 brought some pretty good dough. I think centering plays a heavy role now on ebay with regards to vintage - in this case the PSA 5 centering was poor and it has a qualifier. I think this is interesting in terms of results, centering and qualifier notwithstanding.




Stone

edit: I think the PSA 5 would have grabbed the most dough if it were a straight 5 with OK centering.

envoy98

While I am surprised the PSA didn't garner the most money, the centering is quite a bit worse, and the PSA also has an MK qualifier. Otherwise, I think it surely would have been closer if not beaten the GAI. The beckett one might have had very strong or at least one very strong subgrade...? That seems to play a huge role when comparing even one bgs graded card to another.

qualitycards

STONE - In registry tems a PSA-5 w/ a qualifier gets demoted 2 grades to a PSA-3, with that said, the PSA card didn't do too bad w/ the 2 other cards...jay

NickM

Comparing a qualified card price to an unqualified one is comparing apples to oranges. A 5 (MK) is treated by the reigstry as a 3, and many collectors will not touch a MK card. IMO it is the single most "kiss of death" qualifier.

Nick

Stone193

<< <i>, and the PSA also has an MK qualifier. >>


Envoy
I just edited and realized I left that out of the discussion before I saw your post. I agree with what you say. I do think that 8 grand for the BVG is pretty good, don't you?
Mike
You guys are really fast! I should have previewed this first to make sure I put all my info in - I agree with the qualifier stuff - mainly, I'm bringing this up for the other two on ebay and the results of the BVG.
thanx for responding guys.
Before anyone posted, I had edited my remarks to include that if the PSA 5 were not MK and centered better, it would have probably brought the most money.

MorrellMan

<< <i>This is kind of interesting. Three 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle graded 5's closed on ebay this week. One would automatically assume that the PSA 5 would garner the highest price. But, in fact, the BVG did. >>



....and rightly so - it's the nicest of the 3!

WinPitcher

ouch that psa 5 mk is lucky it didnt also get the oc qualifier...

iamthegreatcornholio

Mike, these all were sold by the same low-feedback seller that doesn't take PayPal. I'm not sure if any of them were legit - if they were legit - he should have had them consigned. A BVG 4.5 just went for 7799.99 from a high feedback, PayPal accepting seller this is way too high IMO.

The GAI 5 was a good deal IMO if it is legit - the other's about average.

Brian

Stone193

<< <i>....and rightly so - it's the nicest of the 3! >>


Mark
I agree, this was a nice card.

Boy, I thought there was no one around and I post this and more people responded in 10 seconds than I would have ever dreamed. I did a poor job of writing and not editing - left out the stuff about the qualifiers - that wasn't my point - I think I have made it a bit more clear - just looking for some talk about the different results.


<< <i>A BVG 4.5 just went for 7799.99 from a high feedback, PayPal accepting seller this is way too high IMO. >>


Brian
I saw that one also, thanx for bring it up and yes, I agree with you also. This has been a good week for the Mick. And I do think that some bargains were gotten this week - as you say, if legit.
Mike

Stone193

<< <i>ouch that psa 5 mk is lucky it didnt also get the oc qualifier... >>


Steve
Again - IMO, that should get a qualifier even in a 5 but they allow 85/15 at that grade.

My impression has been that people are looking for really good centering on vintage. The current set I am collecting, I have seen PSA 8's with no qualifiers go WITHOUT bids due to near the envelope grading on the part of PSA. People know what they want.

Mike

wolfbear

The GAI looks a bit better to me than the BVG. Less of a tilt.
That PSA card is not even in the same ball park.

For the quality of the actual cards vs the prices realized,
I'd have to say PSA came out a big winner, and GAI came out a big loser.

Conclusion : buy cards graded by GAI ... they're a great bargin ...

qualitycards

<< <i><< ouch that psa 5 mk is lucky it didnt also get the oc qualifier... >> >>


A card can only be designated w/ 1 qualifier on it. And the "mk" will win everytime. Even when I request "No Qualifiers" on my submissions, they will lower the "oc" cards to the approriate grade but will always leave the "mk" designation on the card if there is a mark on it. Even PSA-1's & 2's can have "mk" qualifiers...jay

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i>

<< <i><< ouch that psa 5 mk is lucky it didnt also get the oc qualifier... >> >>


A card can only be designated w/ 1 qualifier on it. And the "mk" will win everytime. Even when I request "No Qualifiers" on my submissions, they will lower the "oc" cards to the approriate grade but will always leave the "mk" designation on the card if there is a mark on it. Even PSA-1's & 2's can have "mk" qualifiers...jay >>



Wow, I didn't know that Jay. "MC" usually kills a card so is it better to doodle on the back and get a "MK" instead to appease the people who buy the holder and not the card.

....Sorry for hijacking your thread Stone....
Brian

WinPitcher

i would think that MK is the worst possible qualifier then MC then OC and ST..........I have seen cards with the ST qualifier yet I can barely see the slight wax stain on the back. I also read in Psa standards that a certain amt of wax stain is allowed yet I have gotten back a card 69 mantle WL with the dreaded ST qualifier on it and for the life of me need a magnifying glass to see the slight wax......

I knew that only 1 qualifier per card I was just funning...

ctsoxfan

While echoing everyone's thoughts on this, I think it is a testament to PSA's rep that an ugly, O/C PSA 5 with the kiss of death MK qualifier still brought $5600. The GAI card looks a lot better, and only brought $1000 more?

Stone193

Attention Everyone!

You guys are really on tops of things tonite! Now this is something you ALL wouldn't mind being....hmmmm.



Stone(d) and loving it!

koby

The PSA card is way OC and has an MK qualifier. Someone paid way too much.

The GAI card looks the best. I am surprised that it went for only $1K more than the PSA card.

ctsoxfan

Now that, is a PSA 10 Gem Mint!

iamthegreatcornholio

Well the auctions were private, which is another red flag, and we don’t know the type of people who bid. But I think that the “Johnny Q Public” new bidders don’t know nearly as much about GAI as PSA. If both of these cards were auctioned off by someone with higher feedback, I think that more of the “big boys” would have bid and it would have had much different outcomes, namely, thousands more for the GAI and a little more for the Beckett.

Brian

edited to add nice post Stone!

Stone193

<< <i>Now that, is a PSA 10 Gem Mint >>


CT
I Agree!!!
Charlie Sheen may have sold off his complete memorabilia collection, but he definitely saved the best.
Mike

edit:

<< <i>Sorry for hijacking your thread Stone.... >>


Don't think so Brian - your points are part and parcel of the discussion of graded cards for sale on ebay and that was my whole point tonite - to get some conversation going. Thanx, Mike

A761506

I track 52 Mantle auctions regularly on the website I run... I e-mailed that seller while the auction was running to ask for pictures of the cards in the slabs while he was holding them in his hands but got no reply. I highly doubt these cards actually were possessed by the seller who auctioned them off. I think it was just one of the many 52 Mantle scams on E-bay.

As a matter of a fact, including these cards, only taking into account auctions for the 52 Topps Mantle that ended during the month of June, $76,460 worth of fakes/non-existant cards were sold on E-bay. 61 seperate sales, an average of $1,253 a card. It's pretty consistent from month to month also.

The biggest seller of these is sanfranciscobaytrading. He runs at least one a week, shills the heck out of his own auctions, which are private of course, and always gets closing prices in the $1-3K range for obvious fakes. I am pretty sure he is also the same person as calisurf11, who has been buying up fakes but for significantly less than what he can sell them for once he runs up the price.

qualitycards

BRIAN & STEVE - I don't think that PSA uses "mc" anymore. They just return the card ungraded and send you a voucher. It just happened w/ me w/ a T206 card that was miscut top to bottom, I figured if it was slabbed w/ any grade it would be worth more then raw....jay

MorrellMan

<< <i>I track 52 Mantle auctions regularly on the website I run... I e-mailed that seller while the auction was running to ask for pictures of the cards in the slabs while he was holding them in his hands but got no reply. I highly doubt these cards actually were possessed by the seller who auctioned them off. I think it was just one of the many 52 Mantle scams on E-bay.

As a matter of a fact, including these cards, only taking into account auctions for the 52 Topps Mantle that ended during the month of June, $76,460 worth of fakes/non-existant cards were sold on E-bay. 61 seperate sales, an average of $1,253 a card. It's pretty consistent from month to month also.

The biggest seller of these is sanfranciscobaytrading. He runs at least one a week, shills the heck out of his own auctions, which are private of course, and always gets closing prices in the $1-3K range for obvious fakes. I am pretty sure he is also the same person as calisurf11, who has been buying up fakes but for significantly less than what he can sell them for once he runs up the price. >>



Awesome info here - this is fascinating! Sounds like you ARE the '52 Mantle Bureau of Investigation. Tell us more.

SoFLPhillyFan

Josh -

Can you give us a link to your website Mantle info.

The card page for your MSU site does not come up.

Thanks.

A761506

Here's a link to the Mantle site I run. In order for me to be able to do this, and waste as much time as I have spent on it, and offset my web hosting costs, I normally sell access to it through E-bay for $10. But, since the board members here are mostly top experts, much of this information is probably known, so enjoy.

1952 Topps Mantle Guide

Stone193

<< <i>much of this information is probably known, so enjoy. >>


Thanx, Josh
I knew if I threw out some auction activity that possibly an informative discussion would come of it. There was a discussion about the 52T Mantle months ago detailing some of the minor differences in print runs on the card if I remember. There are tons of reprints/counterfeits on ebay - that is discussed on a regular basis - but as you say - more bad than good ones are being sold and these guys are flying under the radar screen of any true law enforcement. It's people like the ones on the board who, at least, try to put a dent in their activity by reporting to ebay.
Thanx, again, for everyones input.
Mike

SDSportsFan

IMHO, the GAI 5 is the best one of the three. The PSA 5 is horribly OC with an MK qualifier, and the BVG 5 has a diamond cut. I agree with those that said the GAI 5 was a bargain. The PSA 5MK brought only $300 more than I paid last fall for a beautiful, well centered PSA 3 shot 4 on ebay.


Steve

ctsoxfan

Without a doubt, that is a nice and informative site on the history of the '52 Mantle. Thanks for letting us have a look at it.

mercurynut

The BVG does look like the best card and should cross into a PSA holder if thats what the new owner was thinking.

EagleEyeKid

A76 , that was very interesting read. Great guide! What happens if a company like the example shown (from PRO Choice Grading) grades a fake? Does the buyer have any recourse in recooping his money from the basement operated graders? I know if I was the buyer of that card and just learned/saw what I just did, I would completely lose it.

Stone193

<< <i>Does the buyer have any recourse in recooping his money from the basement operated graders? >>


EagleEye
This grading company's website is about as vague as it gets. With that in mind, you can pretty much figure the guarantee, or lack of it, is about as good as the card encapsulated.
Mike

EagleEyeKid

Stone, what would you do if you found out you bought a fake from them (slabbed wise)? Yeah, I think we covered quite a bit on another thread about ProChoice. They're the ones with the hotmail address for email (can't even get their own domain); and used to use 4 screwdown holders with hologram stickers. Can't they still be liable for slabbing fakes?

Stone193

<< <i>Stone, what would you do if you found out you bought a fake from them (slabbed wise)? >>


EagleEye
I let my brother Mickey do my talkin' for me. These guys would be sleepin' with the fishes!


Stone

SDSportsFan

Thanks for the link to your website Josh. I just read thru it and the information on it is great. I learned alot that I didn't know about the card

Steve