Set Registry-- Quality of Grades Question

psavlad

Hello everyone, I have a question that probably every Set Registry member has had to deal with. Because PSA is human and aswell not every graded card with the same grade is going to be exactly the same, does everyone always look to improve their graded cards with better condition graded cards of the same grade? ie. say if you have a vintage Mike Schmidt PSA 8 regular set card and another PSA 8 goes up on eBay that you think looks better, would you bother bidding on it if the bidding was reasonable or would you have no interest in it at all? My problem is more severe, I know someone that has a PSA 10 card that I need but the centering is way off and I'm sure would consistantly grade a PSA 9oc if resubmitted. I already have a PSA 9 with excellent centering! I guess my question is should I go for the 10 and upgrade my Set Registry or forget about and keep my 9 as it is a better quality card. Tough call, please help!

psavlad

My heart (and mind!) is telling me to keep the better condition card and forget about the PSA 10..... I'm just grinding my teeth at the prospect of upgrading my set but chossing not to.

JasP24

I do look for higher quality cards in the same grade. If I can pick a better looking 8 up for a descent price, I will just sell my other copy. a PSA 10 to a PSA 9 OC, I don't know that I've ever seen that. That means the centering is relative to a PSA 7. I've definitely seen a few PSA 10's that look more like low end 9's, but haven't seen one with 7 centering.

The choice is yours really, but for me I would just bid or buy according to how I felt the card looked. A high end 10, I would pay above market value and a low end 10 I would only pay below market value.

Just my opinion of course, and just about everyone does it differently.

Jason

ctsoxfan

I don't care so much what the holder says, I look at the card. But, I rarely, if ever, have replaced a card with another one of the exact same grade. Too many other things to worry about...

mikeschmidt

Vlad:

Buy the card, not the holder. Make sure you are happy with your purchases. If you spend too much time chasing flips instead of cards - you won't enjoy the hobby as much, or your collection.

My $0.02

gregm13

I am very picky on centering. I would pay more for a nicely centered PSA 8 than an o/c PSA that still meets the grade requirements.

Regards,

Greg M.

dude

Good topic. Yes, I study every card I buy and have and still do upgrade cards of the same grade. I try to replace any card that has marginal centering with a significantly better centered example when possible. I also try to replace cards with tilted cuts. Also if the focus is off or the contrast is poor, I try to upgrade those cards too. I only buy PSA 10's if they are dead centered and have sharp focus and vibrant colors. If I obtain a 10 that appears to be of equal quality of a 9, I'll still keep the 9 in my collection. Same is true for keeping strong 8's when I get a 9, etc.

jimtb

I learned this lesson the hard way with 75 minis. A PSA 8 could have two or three fisheyes across the card. It would be an 8, but the visual appeal of the card was terrible. Take the advice the other experts have given you: sure, look at the grade, but look a lot closer at the card to make sure it meets your personal expectations.
Jim

helionaut

I have upgraded a couple cards within the same PSA grade, and will probably do more when I get 100% complete. My Yount rookie is really pretty terribly printed, with thousands of little red spots on the orange part, like someone sprinkled cinnamon (or paprika) on it. There are some 8s I upgraded from 7s where the 7 looks better overall but has something like a single dinged corner where the 8 has 4 standard nm-mt corners. In terms of the registry where 8 is the "standard," I'll take the 8, but it's an upgrade candidate for later.

But if I was going to buy a 10, it had better be a 10, not a 9 + 1. Sometimes you get lucky with the grades, but you don't have to make a seller doubly lucky by buying a slider.

Griffins

I"ve bought cards that, while a higher grade than the one I had, were not nearly as nice a card. This could be either due to my corners vs. centering preferences, older grading standards vs. newer, or just plain eye appeal. I've always ended up selling the card I liked least.
Buy the card, not the holder.

Buckwheat

I frequently upgrade cards in the same condition. As far as having a PSA 8 that looks better than my PSA 9, I keep both in the set, and register the PSA 9. Case in point, I just received a PSA 9 61 Orioles card that has much less eye appeal and gloss than the PSA 8 I already had that was from a presentation set. I registered the 9, but stilll have the 8 in the set.

Rob

Fuzz

I have enough hobbies and a broad enough collecting interest that I do not really have the time or energies to spend upgrading the cards that I already own. I would much rather hunt down one I don't have or even start a second (or third or fourth) set than just continue to upgrade with the same grade. I suspect also that it could be a money losing proposition to pay for a card, usually at retail or above and then try to resell a lesser card at retail.
I try to scan what I buy to make sure it OK and rarely do I end up with a card that bothers me too much. I have one PSA 9 that is 78/22. It is in my set and I have not upgraded though I will some day. Other than that, nothing really comes to mind. In that instance, I could look at the card (on eBay and there was a clear scan) and could see the centering. I paid somewhere between a 7 and 8 in SMR at the time. I could justify that.
In your case, I would only consider the card if 1) you could get it at a deep discount to SMR for a 10 since the seller must also know the card is marginal, or 2) If the registry points between the truly meant more than the $. IF for example, it was the end of October and that card would be the difference between 1st and 2nd where I was likely not too win any other sets and probably not be able to win that the next year.
Otherwise, why buy something defective?
Fuzz

acowa

I upgrade within grade all the time. Most people go with an 8 is an 8 approach so I can usually sell of my lesser card and not take a financial hit on the upgrade. Not everyone cares agrees on what makes a card more desirable within a grade spec. I usually prefer well centered cards versus focusing on corners. I have a complete set of 1954 Topps baseball in PSA 7 but I carry a list of my 1954's that need centering upgrades to every show that I attend.


Regards,


Alan

wolfbear

What I do is buy the low grade 10 to upgrade my set numbers,
but also keep the high grade 9 until I find a higher grade 10.

On the spread sheets where I keep track of my sets, I also grade each card's eye appeal.
For example, every 8 is noted as an 8+, 8, -8, or --8, and I won't rest until every one of them has been upgraded to an 8+.

I know ... I'm sick ...

dude

Wolfbear -- I share your illness. With my records, I keep a spreadsheet and the if card is an "8-", I have it in Bold Print. If it's a solid 8, I have it in Bold Italics. If it's a high 8, it's in ordinary font. As anal as that all seems, the people who pursue the finest examples of a given grade will have stunning sets when they are finally completed and that's something the Registry can't recognize.

Perhaps it's just me, but I've never understood how some people can just throw out want lists and buy high dollar graded cards sight unseen. It also amazes me when I've contacted dealers in years past and inquire about some graded vintage common cards they have listed in a catalogue and I'll ask for scans and they reply, "Why do you need a scan? You don't believe I really have the card?" and I'll reply, I believe you have it, I'd just like to see what it looks like", and they will reply, "It's a Mint card and it's properly graded PSA 9, what's there to see?"

highend

i will often upgrade within grade too. someone pointed out an issue with 75's in PSA 8 being plagued by fisheyes the holds true for 9's and i will never even consider putting one in my set. with 71's i'll take a 50/50 high end 7 over an 8 with lesser centering any day. with 72's if it's a really tough card i'm prone to buying the holder simply because i don't know when i'll see another one.

psavlad

Wow!, thanks for all the great posts guys. Keep 'em coming....

JasP24 -- This card is very obviously O/C, I've concluded that because it is a tricky set to get centered (not a simple white border vintage, but a floating boarder modern) and the 'norm' is an off centered card the grader must not have been all that familiar with it. Good point regarding the high end 10 vs. low end 10.

Ctsoxfan -- Yeah, usually comparing 2 cards of the same grades leads me to an even score and lots of frustration.

MikeSchmidt -- I actually used Schmidt as the player after reading one of your posts. Off topic but do you ever get people asking if you are 'the real' Mike Schmidt? I have an eBay account id that is a players full name and every couple months I get some bozo asking me if I'm actually the player.... and that they are 'surprised' I collect cards if I am. Maybe I should change my name to one of our hero's who has passed on.

gragm13 -- On a vintage set where the centering is very obvious I would side with you, but practicly all the cards are O/C to one side in this set and I've learned I can't be as picky.

dude -- Buy it and keep both, what a concept... got a few K$ to lend me? Seriously it's a good suggestion, best of both worlds then right? I think I might take this path.

jimtb -- the focus (vintage) or 'off center stamp (modern)' on cards can be a pain, on my set (modern) I've gone with sharp corners and edges over an 'off center stamp'.

helionaut -- that's what bothers me (seller making a killing off it), I'm going to talk him down.

Griffins -- Re: older vs newer grading standars, thats exactly what I attributed this error to, I assumed PSA was more lax in the 'old days', but my friend claims that PSA was infact more strict when they started.

FUZZ -- I'm lucky I've learned a little self control and have concentrated on only a few sets with minor dabbling in other collections. ...which makes the situation a little more frustrating of a decision for me.

Acowa -- Great idea (having list of possible upgrades handy for shows). I think I'll use that, the spectrum of my Set Registry just gets bigger! Maybe one day I will start to collect all the cards that are centered left side heavy and that have bad lower right side corners!

WolfBear -- Good call on the grading scale (with a grading scale). I think I will add your system to me spreadsheet, thanks.

sixdart

I to keep track of PSA 8/9 -'s, PSA 8/9s that meet my standards and PSA 8/9+'s that are high-end.

RedRomad275

Buy the card not the holder

WinPitcher

keep your well centered nine, as for upgrading an 8 to another 8, yes i have done that when I find what I think is a better 8 I have seen some 7's that look nicer then some 8's as well. today in the mail i recieved a 1965 topps psa 8 bill white that has a dent on the left hand border..........im gonna pass and hopefully the seller will accept it back. if not? I won't be buying anymore from him/her/it. and will upgrade as soon as feasable.

coach30

I upgrade cards within grade all the time. To pay PSA 10 money for a card that was not pleasing to look at would not be a consideration of mine. The guys that say "buy the card not the grade" are right on. IMO eye appeal is number one. It's easy to get pulled into the registry battle but enjoying the card to me is more important.

Mitochondria

psavlad,

Like dude, I am constantly upgrading my cards even if the grade is the same. The 1969 set is plagued with tilted cuts that can often be upgraded within the same grade with cards that are straighter and have better eye appeal.

Ron