THIS IS WHY PCGS GETS LESS AND LESS OF OUR BUSINESS
nencoin
Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭✭
Absolutely ridiculous turnaround times. We received a 15-DAY submission back today (6-23) that PCGS received on 5-21. We called to request vouchers (they have some silly formula they use to compute how many vouchers you get for late submissions), and we were surprised to learn we get zero vouchers. They give us a list of show dates (including Grade and Trade) and some other lame excuse as to why the 30 days that lapsed were really just 15.
If PCGS can't handle the submisssions they are already getting, why do something like a Grade & Trade, which simply delays everyone's regular submissions even more? (because they generate good money at those things) It's very frustrating to have inventory tied up for that long, AND pay regular submission prices, AND get told Tough Luck by PCGS when we want some sort of compensation for their poor service. The solution for us is simple - yet another submission invoice on its way to NGC, instead of PCGS.
If PCGS can't handle the submisssions they are already getting, why do something like a Grade & Trade, which simply delays everyone's regular submissions even more? (because they generate good money at those things) It's very frustrating to have inventory tied up for that long, AND pay regular submission prices, AND get told Tough Luck by PCGS when we want some sort of compensation for their poor service. The solution for us is simple - yet another submission invoice on its way to NGC, instead of PCGS.
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Comments
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<< <i>if the wait is going to be longer than you want, then by all means, send em to NGC >>
Obviously your occupation is not in the sales and service industry in any way. It is also doubtful you submit coins of any quantity to the grading services...if you did, you wouldn't suggest we start checking calendars when sending coins to grading services. When a service offers 15 days guaranteed, I expect my coins in 15 days. Period. But I appreciate your professional, courteous response to my post. Thanks!
certainly your frustration is understandable, we've all been there. the point you seem to be missing is that PCGS makes the statement that dates they are doing shows will not be counted towards that guarantee. it's very clear. if that is the sticking point for you, you'll lose every time.
insisting that they stick to a guarantee when they have is rather silly. you seem to expect "front of the line priveleges" due to your large submissions and that hardly seems sensible. i expect the same consideration with a four coin submission as you would get from a 400 coin submission. after all, we have the same guarantee, correct??
it's a good rant but not one you'll win and not one that will be popular with many. as of you'r second post to the thread you seem to expect special treatment. no, no, no.
al h.
I guess the extra money a PCGS slab generates does not make up for the extra time it takes to get the coin slabbed. Oh well make it up in volumn with those NGC slabs.
Days during which PCGS is attending a show or hosting a dealer invitational are not considered business days for the purpose of calculating guaranteed turnaround times.
if you look at this objectively, your grading time began on 5-24 and ran until you received an e-mail stating that your grades were available, which was probably on 6-18. that's a total of 19 days which included the Memorial Day holiday and any show dates. to me that seems reasonable.
al h.
hey, you seem like you calmed down from the start of this. the PCGS nut-ranch physcho ward is working!!
al h.
JMHO from experience. Maybe all I buy is junk coins though.
<< <i>Here is a simple equation and maybe one day PCGS will figure it out. If you make your living in coins and you have a significant amount of your working capital in coins that need to be graded who will you send them to? The company that grades them in a week, show or no show, or the company that grades them in 30 days. In this market most coins are worth about the same no matter which holder they are in. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure PCGS is losing a lot of business over this. >>
Pcgs dosen't have a infinite number of graders and they don't want to hire just anyone to grade coins so when pcgs reaches the point they get really backed up then if people send their coins somewhere else they are doing pcgs a favor in a way.
I'm not knocking PCGS. I just think they should take care of this problem. It's been going on for over a year.
Pepsi IS much better than coke in real life.
<< <i>actually Numish,
Pepsi IS much better than coke in real life.
Not in my opinion.
I'd have to put a qualifier on that one. That is defininatly not the case with conditional rarities... or for that matter... conditional scarcities. I have a 30-S cent in NGC 67RD, a very nice coin. In it's current holder, it would bring abour $400-$500... and only b/c it's a nice one. In a PCGS holder, 10K minimum... That's just one example... I could sight hundreds of others, but there's no use beating a dead horse to death.
David
So far they have been able to count of brand preference (price differentials and buyer resistance to coins in other holders) to maintain their market share. Dealers will eventually weigh the price differential agains the time value of money (turn around time for grading) but they may not be able to adjust for buyer resistance to other holders.
CG
Years ago, we opened a new office, and called to have the phone lines installed.
They stated that the phone guy would be out Friday.
So like a fool, I placed our newspaper ad's for Saturday and Sunday.
Naturally, the phone guy didn't come out until Wednesday the week after.
So the ad's were all wasted for the weekend, as no one could call us.
Don't even get me started on how much trouble we went through on having the electricity turned on.
It seems everyone is slow nowadays. For example, take your car in for repair at the dealer, they say it'll be ready Wednesday. Wednesday comes, you call at noon, and find out that a part didn't come in on the truck, and you have to wait three more days.
Years ago, amazingly enough, the rear axle break on my motorcycle. In looking at the broken parts it was obvious that it was a defect in the metal. But it's long after the warranty has expired. Anyway, one is not supposed to be able to break an axle. Thus the motor company does not stock spares for axles, so I had to order a new one and wait five months before I could get a axle replacement. Basically I had to wait for the company that makes the axles (probably Chinese) to make a extra one for me, when they made the next batch for the new bikes. Naturally, they aren't going to sell you one that is already earmarked to go into a new bike to be assembled at the factory.
It seems "Murphy's Law" is always there to bite you bad when you forget about it. If I submit the coins with no interest on when they get returned, it's amazing, they come back pretty fast. But if I expect them back on a certain date, guess what, they are always late.
<< <i> In this market most coins are worth about the same no matter which holder they are in.
I'd have to put a qualifier on that one. That is defininatly not the case with conditional rarities... or for that matter... conditional scarcities. I have a 30-S cent in NGC 67RD, a very nice coin. In it's current holder, it would bring abour $400-$500... and only b/c it's a nice one. In a PCGS holder, 10K minimum... That's just one example... I could sight hundreds of others, but there's no use beating a dead horse to death.
David >>
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>If there is a store that sells Coke but I have to wait in line for an hour to get it I'm going to go down the road to the guy that sells Pepsi with no line. >>
As a businessman, I'd be asking myself why the guy selling Pepsi has no line.
Russ, NCNE
Free Trial
PCGS long delays in getting coins graded does not equate to success.
peacockcoins
i don't know who gives out the POTD's, but they need to issue one to Russ for that quip!!!
al h.
<< <i>As a businessman, I'd be asking myself why the guy selling Pepsi has no line.
i don't know who gives out the POTD's, but they need to issue one to Russ for that quip!!!
al h.
Agreed!
If you are a dealer sending material off for the 15 day service, you are looking for turnaround. Very few businesses can absorb monies tied up with submissions for months at a time. Generally, the smaller the business, the more vulnerable they are to not having positive cash flow. Extended submission times hurt. Sometimes they hurt too much to be worth the wait.
Think of how much more efficient a coin operation can run if submission times between the two services have only a 5 day differential? Extend that difference over a year......two years.....etc. It makes a difference, and dealers know it.
As far as perceived values for certain coins in certain holders, someone would be a fool to disregard that notion, but overall, on all day, every day type coins being submitted, the holder doesn't matter, especially in a market moving as fast as the current market is moving.
You can find examples for both services where one service garners more money than the other. I would agree that there are more segments of the market where pcgs will command a higher perceived value.
We can nitpick the specifics of the original post, but the underlying message is that pcgs takes to darn long to grade coins, and they take too darn long, consistently. Not where I want my grading service to be consistent.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
<< <i> In this market most coins are worth about the same no matter which holder they are in.
I'd have to put a qualifier on that one. That is defininatly not the case with conditional rarities... or for that matter... conditional scarcities. I have a 30-S cent in NGC 67RD, a very nice coin. In it's current holder, it would bring abour $400-$500... and only b/c it's a nice one. In a PCGS holder, 10K minimum... That's just one example... I could sight hundreds of others, but there's no use beating a dead horse to death.
David >>
Any facts to back that up? No bashing, just wondering. If that is so, then the one buying the PCGS holdered coin is kind of a sucker.
<< <i> That is defininatly not the case with conditional rarities... or for that matter... conditional scarcities. I have a 30-S cent in NGC 67RD, a very nice coin. In it's current holder, it would bring abour $400-$500... and only b/c it's a nice one. In a PCGS holder, 10K minimum... That's just one example... I could sight hundreds of others, but there's no use beating a dead horse to death. >>
That shouldn't be the case if you are buying the coin, not the plastic. I don't doubt that either company has a variation in their grades. However, the holder shouldn't make the difference if you are truely buying the coin not the plastic.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I'll say it again......
As long as PCGS is getting submissions they have no reason to improve the turnaround times.
They are paid IN ADVANCE of their services. They have your money on an interest free loan for a period of 10-50 days depending on the service level. I wish my clients would pay me in advance so I could keep their money and do with it as I see fit without having to provide a service.
They are making $$$$$ off the float. Do the math -- if the service is delayed 30 days it allows a company to make basically 13 months of profits in 12 months. That's a nice setup.
Would you go to a store to buy a TV and pay for it today and return in 45 days to pick it up?
Why doesn't PCGS charge fees right before the coin is shipped?
This borders on unfair business practices -- especially when the vouchers aren't provided per the guaranty.
Michael
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Thaty may be a good point and a new curve here but if you were a business man and not a lawyer
Shees when is this gonna end?
marc
<< <i>Why doesn't PCGS charge fees right before the coin is shipped? >>
For the same reason NGC doesn't. If you're going to criticize PCGS for something, at least make it an issue that doesn't exist with the other guy. Both companies charge upon receipt of the coins because it would be bad business practice to do otherwise. The work begins as soon as the order arrives, not just when it makes it to the grading room. If they waited until all work was complete, they run the risk of not getting paid because of an invalid card or bounced check.
Russ, NCNE
Why doesn't PCGS charge fees right before the coin is shipped? >>>
That's a very good point FrattLaw, imagine all the collectors who put their economy submissions on their credit cards, and are then paying up to 18-21% APR interest for a couple months on the balance while their coins sit in a room somewhere waiting to be graded....and in the meantime, PCGS is collecting interest on that money.
And it's not like PCGS would risk getting burned on their fees if they charged you immediatly proir to the coins being sent back to the submitter, after all, they still have your coins.
<< <i>Good point, Russ. Also, if PCGS isw losing so much business, why can't they seem to catch up on grading backlog??
It's a never-ending cycle. The moment PCGS announces a quicker turn-around time on their Web site, there's a flurry of submissions. That's pushes the backlog back up.
HRH has said many times they can't find graders that meet their standards. Until they find more graders, they can't increase their volume, so they can't increase their revenue (without raising prices). Since they can't increase their revenue, they have no incentive (or means) to pump slabs out more quickly.
peacockcoins
They are making $$$$$ off the float. Do the math -- if the service is delayed 30 days it allows a company to make basically 13 months of profits in 12 months. That's a nice setup.
First off if you have 30 days grace period on your CC what are you really out? I doubt that PCGS makes scads of money off of current money market rates.
So if they perform the service, go to bill you and find out your funds are NFG then what are they supposed to do?
All businesses have risks. I bill my clients after I've completed the work. My gardener bills me after he's done cutting my grass for the month. My brother who owns a bodyshop gets paid when he delivers a completed car to his customer. I pay my bar bill after I'm done drinking and about to leave.
Your argument is not a plausible defense to PCGS's actions.
As for NGC, at least they get the coins returned in a reasonable amount of time and within their guidelines.
And if you buy into Hall's dribble about not being able to find graders -- well I've got some land in Florida and a bridge in NY for sale.
If NGC can get it done and they actually grade more coins per month than PCGS, why can't PCGS.
Cause they don't have to.
Michael
Have you ever tried to SNORT pepsi?
Jim
09/07/2006
Many rants I have read where the little guy submits/ re-submits/ and submits AGAIN and again... NEVER obtaining his rightful grade .... He gives up, sells out... only to find his coin, the very same coin NOW at the grade he believed it to be all along, in the hands of a major dealer. MONEY TALKS! This is not right...NONE OF IT!
If PCGS cannot be counted on to grade correctly the first time around, then actually they are no better than Joe Schmoe who makes his own labels and slabs with materials anyone can buy. If you pay for a service, you should receive what you pay for... THAT ALL WORLD SERVICE - the closest grading possible - THE FIRST TIME AROUND or there is NO real reason to submit at all which leads to my next opinion.
With all this being said and all of us being aware of these never ending problems that PCGS seemingly cannot resolve, by failing to expand, hire and train competent graders....if they are so far behind with no solution in sight and fraught with meaningless guarantees, it is then incumbent upon US...the people that make up PCGS to solve the problems ourselves.
Just everybody STOP!! STOP-do not submit another coin..NOT ONE MORE COIN until they are caught up and have made the NECESSARY, LONG OVERDUE changes which are EXPANSION, the hiring and training of new graders until they PROVE to be the competent graders everyone of us THINKS we are sending our money and our coins to otherwise things will NEVER change.
If cashflow stops...if quality control along with customer satisfaction are not addressed....it's just a matter of time before PCGS will have destroyed itself, all due to their own shortcomings. It does not take a Nuclear Physicist to figure out what the problems are around here and how to correct them. As long as we continue to condone this and do nothing about it, nothing will be done. If PCGS is so hopelessly behind then I suggest each and every one of us not submit another coin until they are not only caught up but the situation is addressed in such a way as to ensure that it doesn't transpire any more-ever again!
Just my humble opinion!
SOMEBODY needs to grab the proverbial Bull by the horns. Enough with the empty words and meaningless Guarantees not to mention grading inconsistencies and favoritism! There....I've said it!
DID I WIN???
RATS
I NEVER WIN.
Bingo.
I work in a manufacturing facility. When we get a large surge of business and there is pressure to get product out the door, productivity naturally goes up (everyone is hustling) and the owner makes more margin (money). The owner doesn't hire more people until he absolutely HAS to (ie there is risk of losing orders).
Although this is not the best customer service (some of our customers have to wait a long time for their products), it is smart business.
The parallel to the PCGS situation is as clear as day to me. Until PCGS sees "cancelled orders", they have no incentive to really work to improve. Since they are generally perceived to have the best product, there is a bit less pressure to try to compete harder. And, since everyone collects the money first, it is hard to "cancel" an order.
I think I just talked myself into buying stock in CU.