Paying For Graded Commons?

scottsusor

In another thread, Buccaneer wrote, "I still can't fathom paying for graded commons."

I thought that was an intriguing statement. I have to wonder how many PSA Set Registry set builders share Buccaneer's perspective. Personally, I was under the impression that the majority of PSA Set Registry set builders were more interested in buying their cards -- both stars and commons -- already graded. But Buccaneer's statement suggests that there may be at least some interest by PSA Set Registry set builders in buying raw and submitting (as distinct from submitting cards they already own).

What are the percentages PSA Set Registry set builders who:
(1) Buy 100% of their cards already graded
(2) Submit cards they already own and buy the rest already graded
(3) Buy no graded cards but instead buy 100% raw and submit them
(4) Other?

Scott

iamthegreatcornholio

Well I'm definitely number 1, being born in '83 means all of my childhood cards are worthless mass-produced cards. And my infrequent submissions are always depressing.

Brian

purelyPSA

Option 4: buy cards that I need that are already graded and wind up selling for a price that's a steal (and probably a big disappointment for the seller). Otherwise, submit my own. I refuse to pay a zillion dollars just because a card's on the corner of a sheet. If that means all I can find is a 7, then so be it.

Virtualizard

It definitely depends on the set for me.

For my modern sets (player sets, mainly) I am about 50/50 on submitting myself/buying already graded. For my vintage post war sets, I purchase almost entirely graded cards - I'm attempting these in PSA 8 and better, so finding raw examples to submit myself is unlikely. For my prewar sets, I submit most of the cards myself and pick up an occasional graded card when I can.

JEB.

mariner

#2 for me...

JonB

like brian, I am a young'n, born in 82, my first real memory of collecting was of 91 leaf... no thats basically junk. for a few of the new sets I am trying to put together i'll buy boxes and submit the cards myself, but as far as the old stuff goes, I almost always buy already graded cards. there are several reasons, nice raw examples are very hard to find, and there is also the issue of authenticity.

regeden

Option #1 for me.

There are just to many fake T206s.

My T206s

perkdog

I definately buy only graded for my set, too much hassle buying raw hoping for your grade and have it fall under. That is for my PRIMARY set only, I just reciently bought some raw cards for the first time in over a year and submitted them only because I enjoyed the cards and didnt care about the grade.

67standup

A mixture of raw and already graded.

Interesting that stars carry such a premium, while many of us snicker at paying for commons. If you think about, which do you see of more? I've got a few near sets that are only missing commons; the Mantle and Mays are usually found on Ebay. You have to really search for those commons. In regard to Ebay, most won’t list unless they are graded, and you don’t find too many graded because they’re never listed raw in the first place. Moreover, stars will most likely have stood the test of time, as kids tend to have chucked the commons. I like paying for scarcity - common or star - rather than star power.

interchanges

#2 for me I suppose as well.

This certain dilema has hit me pretty hard. (well I'm not paying for commons, but I'm paying to have them graded).

I put together a set of 1969 Football directly from vending about 15 years ago. (from Don Steinbach!)
I have most of the stars that graded out nines.
Now I have 200+ commons I would love to get graded, but that means shelling out over $1200.00 (@ $6.00 a piece).
While it would be nice to make a major splash into the registry, it's hard to justify spending that much solely to look good on the registry.
I usually tell myself it's not worth it, but then I look at all those mint cards and reconsider.
It'll happen someday.

highend

i buy graded and raw. i only buy raw from tried and true dealers who DO NOT deal in graded cards at all.

i enjoy the hunt for raw cards for my sets and i (usually) enjoy submitting them. some of the tough commons are still out there waiting to graded and like the satisfaction of finding them.

the big advantage of buying (PSA) graded is that , the majority of the time you pretty much know exactly what you're getting. even though there is a certain premium attached to it.

magellan

I'm pretty much a #2 guy although probably between #1 & 2 . In the case of commons I've found that in most cases the cost of them raw plus the cost of grading costs more than buying graded on eBay for the grades I'm collecting in (that's in most cases).

Dave

jaybyrd

I like to look at my cards in plastic pages in notebooks. My bigger stars in the 1967 set are graded, (been burned on other big money cards before). But commons are not graded. I will purchase the more expensive high numbers in PSA 6 or 7 if the price is right. These cards will still end up getting cracked out and put into my binder though.

Griffins

#2 for me. Unfortunately I"ve gotten to the point where I won't buy raw off ebay anymore. Unless I can see the card in person it's not worth the risk- it seems like I"m always disappointed.
The exception would be certain Mastro auctions and any of Robert Edward's, along with dealers like Mark Macrae who don't sell graded and grade very conservatively.
I"ll echo regeden's post- Cracker Jacks are also commonly reprinted, and while its pretty easy to tell from a scan its not always easy to tell the trimmed and doctored ones when scans are less than optimal.

Buccaneer

Scott, I kinda figured it would be you that would pick up on my little statement.

Right now, put me down for (4) Other. When I said that I can't fathom buying graded commons, I really meant that I can't fathom having graded commons at all - whether buying graded or buying raw and then grading them. Here's why. A NM card is still a NM card whether it's in a fancy slab with a sticker or simply in a top loader. As stated several times here, I only buy raw cards from Mickey Campbell and I trust him to be fair in grading raw cards. I have probably purchased well over 500 raw cards (commons/minors) from him and have been satisfied with every single one. Would PSA share our view? Probably. So 1) why would I pay an extra $5-10 to get that $2.50 card slabbed and 2) why would I pay $10.50 for a $2.50 card in a plastic slab?

In the past month, I have bought nearly all of Mickey's stock of NM (and NM+) raw of 3 of the 5 sets (1957, 1961 and 1964) that I mentioned (he has a new crop of 1963 and 1965 listed). As of tonight, here are the few 1961 NM raws that I didn't buy because I already had them:

1961 Topps Baseball 12 Moe Thacker (Cubs) NMT+ $2.50
1961 Topps Baseball 19 Clete Boyer (Yankees) NMT $14.50
1961 Topps Baseball 193 Gene Conley (Red Sox) NMT $2.50
1961 Topps Baseball 198 Carl Sawatski (Cardinals) NMT $1.95
1961 Topps Baseball 225 Bill Rigney (Angels) NMT $2.50
1961 Topps Baseball 437 b Checklist Six NMT $9.50
1961 Topps Baseball 491 Phillies Team NMT $8.50

Most of the 1961s that I have bought this year from him have been in the $1.95-$2.50 range (as shown above). These cards are NM as far as I can tell, esp. the ones he lists as NMT+ (lock PSA 7, if you will). According to the recent SMR, a PSA 7 #12 books for $10. I would rather build sets paying $2.50 instead $10, esp. since I have limited funds, I can buy four common cards for $10 instead of just one.

I assume it was Mickey that bought the 1963 set from MastoNet. It was a set of graded stars and raw commons/minors/highs. Since a PSA 7 and a raw NM star card is about the same price, it makes sense to me to buy graded stars (as I did when I just picked up this 1963 Bomber's Best. Probably can't find a raw NM at that price (or any price for that matter). But commons are a completely different story for me and if I am ever going to make a dent in completing my five sets, I can't be paying $7.50 just for a plastic slab on a 1961 NM #12.

Sorry for long response. I appreciate you allowing me to share my bias and my thoughts.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>i buy graded and raw. i only buy raw from tried and true dealers who DO NOT deal in graded cards at all. >>



This describes my buying habits perfectly as well. I will buy graded commons for my registry sets, but only for somewhere close to grading fees. I refuse to overpay for a dealer finding that rare "low pop common", having it graded, and then ripping my face off on Ebay for it. The whole "low-pop" common hunt is quickly falling out of favor with me, as I would prefer to buy high grade stars, and deal with lower graded commons for a lot less money. I prefer to submit my own high grade raw commons, but you can often find graded lots of commons for less than it would cost to grade the cards yourself (nevermind the cost of the cards also!)

Lothar52

exactly...got a psa 6 nice early wynn the other day... freaking 12 bucks...10 for the grading fee and 2 for the card...thank ya very much!

loth

mariner

i enjoy the hunt for raw cards for my sets and i (usually) enjoy submitting them. some of the tough commons are still out there waiting to graded and like the satisfaction of finding them.

Text

Highend says it best....

I agree that hunting for nice raw cards, even though tougher than ever, is still the most fun. The statement that some of the tough commons are still out there is so true. My recent experience is that I picked up a handful of super nice 1963 Topps baseball at a local card shop. Included in the bunch was a nice #34 Dick Schofield which is the lowest pop card in the entire set. I submitted the Schofield recently and it hit the pop report this week as the 10th PSA 8!! It still is the lowest pop, just slightly lower than card #324. Suffice to say that made my month!! invoice #557450 zip 85331

grilloj39

I recognize the convenience of buying already graded cards, but I agree with Mariner, that I too, like the challenge of hunting down those sharp-looking raw cards, giving them a hard lookover, and deciding which ones to send in for grading.

I am about 50-50 in my ratio of buying raw vs. already graded.

JG

Basilone

Put me down for #1. (95% of the time though...not 100%)

sixdart

I prefer grading at this point. Buying, searching, sorting and submission takes to much time. It was different when past card shows were more frequent had better quality material - not today .

scottsusor

<< <i>I refuse to overpay for a dealer finding that rare "low pop common", having it graded, and then ripping my face off on Ebay for it. >>


Hey, I represent that remark! But I'm not really a full time "dealer" as such -- I just enjoy finding 'em and submitting 'em -- maybe making some money to put into my own collecting interests. For me its just providing a service -- I'm not trying to rip anybody's face off -- I don't use a Reserve Price -- they just go for whatever they go for.

By the way, it was great to see the name of the late Don Steinbach mentioned in this thread. He was one of the truly nice guys in the hobby back when I was just getting started in the early 1970's. My parents took me to the Chicago show back then when he and Pat Quinn were running it.

Scott

Edited to add: This may be a new record for most posts in a thread without koby, murcerfan or Michael Bow (toppsgun, GeorgePatton, GlenGaryGlenRoss, itsawonderfullife, etc.) mucking it up with a rude comment or insult -- but I won't hold my breath.

koby

Newbie,

You never participated on these boards until half a year ago. You never even submitted to PSA until a few months ago. When you started posting here, you were wondering why PSA was grading your first PSA submission so harshly. Now that you have sent a few submissions in, you are an expert?

koby

koby

<< <i>

<< <i>I refuse to overpay for a dealer finding that rare "low pop common", having it graded, and then ripping my face off on Ebay for it. >>


Hey, I represent that remark! >>




Scot,

What are you talking about? He didn't say he refused to overpay a piece of garbage that constantly spams its products on the CU forums.

koby

scottsusor

And there he is.

pandrews

sweet.. well, I just bought RAW off eBay.. hmmm.. i took a chance, thankfully I wont be out TOO much money if I got ripped somehow, but the guys feedback looks good (just low), and from what I can tell he's just a newbie because his listings look similar to mine when I first started (although I used better grammar)..

I bid in the last 10 minutes.. so I havent seen scans of the back or anything.. but it doesnt look like its creased.. we'll see!

lol.. i just realized i'll be paying homeboy $7.00 to ship the card.. and no paypal..

PS - and I bid @ 3:00am - while stoned - dont do it! Thanks to Cornholio (thanks?) for pointing out I just bought a fu@k!n 1959, rather than a 1958..

Remobolan

Scott,

Beg, borrow, senior citizen conventions, auctions, beat up little kids in alleys, blackmail, hostage taking and of course pay for them at shows.

Seriously, any way you can, raw is always a gamble, but it is more fun. Buying graded is flaky! I have paid $47 for a common on ebay on Tuesday and the same card goes for $12 on Friday. The coolest is to find a card at a shop or show that appears to have been ignored for years and you stumbled on it. You send it in and get a 9, it has only happened to me once but it is the one I remember the most.

mikeschmidt

Depends on the set:

1955 Bowman - Buy 95% already graded
Mike Schmidt Player Set - about 50/50. Get most oddballs graded myself - a fair chunk of upgrades to 10s have been through graded purchases.

dude

My answer is that most of my cards for my registry sets are direct submissions, but I do on occassion buy cards off of eBay or major auctions, but those are usually major star cards.


scottsusor -- What's your answer to your question regarding how you obtain graded cards for the graded sets you collect? By the way, do you mind me asking what graded sets do you have on the registry right now?

acowa

When I built my 1967 set...I did all of the options that you mentioned and more. I even brokered a deal for a large lot of 1967's where I ended up getting one tough card for my set. The last 5% of any set will take you twice as long to add as the first 95%. I have a hunch that the people who have built high end PSA graded sets, weren't too picky as to how they added that last 5%.

Here is a link to my thoughts on set building.

Strategies for building PSA graded sets on a budget


Regards,


Alan

Fabfrank

I buy 99% of my vintage already graded. I'll submit most of my modern myself to be graded unless I find the card already graded at below the price I feel it's worth. I recently have started building baseball sets from 72-77. I have been buying lots of common PSA 8's on Ebay and from board members for between $4-$5 per card. If anyone has any for sale PM me.

scottsusor

<< <i>scottsusor -- What's your answer to your question regarding how you obtain graded cards for the graded sets you collect? By the way, do you mind me asking what graded sets do you have on the registry right now? >>


Dude,

Personally, I don't collect graded cards, at least not yet. I have completed high grade sets back to 1954, plus 1950 Bowman. I'm working on completing 1951 to 1953 Bowman and Topps sets.

Scott

dude

Scott -- Good luck on building those early '50's sets in high grade raw.

By the way, I stumbled across one of your auctions where you bought a '68 Topps Baseball common, Hal Lanier, in NearMint or more likely Ex-Mint due to the scuffing on the right border for $6.50. If you are looking for more cards like this, let me know, I'll even discount it slightly to $5.50 or $5.00 depending on the volume. With a little doing, I can probably get a 3,000 count box or even more if needed, of '68 Topps cards of this quality and since you live in Houston, I'll even have it delivered to your house or business at no extra charge. Let me know.

Tipem

Scott,



I am working on mid 50's sets mostly and cannot find high grade (8-9's)in raw. I would put myself in the #1 category.While I pay a fairly large premium for graded,I am assured that the cards are as stated.Most 50's cards are grossly overgraded in raw form on e-bay.I would love to be able to buy raw in high grade and it never ceases to amaze me that certain dealers seem to come up with an endless supply of high grade cards. I guess if you do this for a living,you have more sources to buy from.


Vic


Edited to add that I have been burned more than once by buying raw star cards that were trimmed.It S*cks !!!!

Buccaneer

I didn't even think one would be able to find much high-grade raw 1950s or early 1960s in NMMT-MT. Commons in NM seem to be relatively plentiful but PSA 7 stars seem to have a high demand. Of course when I rail against graded commons, cards like 1965 #22 becomes a rare exception but I still don't see paying 4x more for a common just because it's in a tamper-proof plastic slab.

DirtyHarry

The "set registry" has achieved it's marketing purpose in creating interest in commons that can fetch multiples of "book" because there is a demand created by those who "are in."

koby

<< <i>
Personally, I don't collect graded cards >>





nice

Buccaneer

Why would you have a problem with that? Aren't we all supposed to be "buying the card and not the holder"?

koby

Yes. Wouldn't it be great if there were non third-party grading? I miss those days.

dude

"Buy the card, not the holder" is certainly a cliché that has gotten a mileage around here and in theory its a great motto. Unfortunately, there are still too many dealers that sell overgraded raw cards and there are still too many collectors who don't know how to grade cards and buy them anyway thinking they are getting a bargain but in reality are getting ripped off.

grilloj39

koby...as a graded card collector...i must admit that some of the finest collections in the world are raw collections. Many of these collectors steer clear of graded cards, can't say I don't blame them sometimes.

Buccaneer

<< <i>Yes. Wouldn't it be great if there were non third-party grading? I miss those days. >>



Not necessarily, it's about choices. You seem to imply that there is only one best way to build sets. For some, registry sets and graded cards make sense and for others, graded commons generally make no sense. Both (and all) positions are right. It all depends on what each of us chose to do in this hobby/business.

ZodiacMindwarp

Raw or graded, in good condition or mint, one should collect whatever makes one happy and should not care about anyone else's opinion of how or what they collect. Now with that being said, please keep in mind that this is the "PSA Set Registry Forum" so that includes graded commons.

Buccaneer

<< <i>"Buy the card, not the holder" is certainly a cliché that has gotten a mileage around here and in theory its a great motto. Unfortunately, there are still too many dealers that sell overgraded raw cards and there are still too many collectors who don't know how to grade cards and buy them anyway thinking they are getting a bargain but in reality are getting ripped off. >>



I agree but have this response. A collector should not be burdened by those telling him/her that they got "ripped off" because in some cases, it doesn't matter. Also, you have to look at the flip side of collectors (and dealers) overpaying for graded cards (and for grading) and up losing more money than they should. I'm not talking about the investment-grades but the range where some/many of us fall into.