Colonial experts...Help!

Oldnewbie

What might this be. A counterfeit English made George III? It looks like the date is 1776, so it wouldn't be a genuine halfpence would it?
I hope I'm not too far off base. This is on eBay wiith no description.





Eric

Conder101

Date is 1775. Can't tell for sure if it is genuine or counterfeit but I lean towards genuine due to the good engraving work and the well executed rounded relief. Especially on the shield on the reverse. On many of the counterfeits the shield is flat and not rounded.

Oldnewbie

1775, eh? Thanks Condor.

Eric

JadeRareCoin

It looks like a contemporary counterfeit British Half Penny. Doesn't look good enough to be genuine. However, it's not worth much (maybe $20 tops). These are common. The more desireable counterfeits are the ones that were struck in Colonial America (i.e. Machin's Mills, et. al.). They are also easier to identify than the British counterfeits, since they the design and execution was more crude. The cool thing is that the British and American Half Penny counterfeits boths circulated side-by-side in Colonial America.

Oldnewbie

<< <i> The cool thing is that the British and American Half Penny counterfeits boths circulated side-by-side in Colonial America. >>


That is cool, I think I'll try to snag it cheap and then get a Machin's Mills.

Eric

Conder101

Be careful buying the Machins Mills. There are a LOT of Machins Mills pieces offered that are not actually Machins Mills but instead are just run of the mill counterfeit half pence, sometimes of English manufacture. I have even seen genuine British half pence being offered as Machins Mills coins. The problem comes because people look through the Redbook and see the Machins mills coins pictured there and they look kind of like their coins so they jump to the conclusion that they have Machins Mills pieces.

JadeRareCoin

I have even seen genuine British half pence being offered as Machins Mills coins.

Yes! Constantly! For us, it's usually other dealers who do not specialize in colonials. Typical scenario: the dealer purchases a large collection that contains some colonials. The British half pennies are marked as "Machin's Mills" with a dollar value on the holder. They don't know how to distinguish between North American manufactured counterfeits, British counterfeits or even legal British manufacture.

Admittedly, it is very difficult on some pieces. I have a real struggle with the area of counterfeit British half pennies, especially those originating in England or Ireland. For the well documented pieces, it's easy. Machin's pieces are distinctive due to the large toothed border dentilation and the shallow devices. The Machins pieces are also the most valuable counterfeits. Some of the others can be more difficult. The key thing to remember is that ALL of the counterfeits are underweight. That was the whole point; to save some copper (about 30% lighter) and gain financially. Buy some genuine British half pennies and carry them with you to shows. Then when you are offered some counterfeits, compare the weight and the details.

I believe that there's a work in progress on the subject of counterfeit British half pennies. It's a small group out of C-4 doing the work, so I have been told. Can't wait for that work to be published!

JRocco

I don't mean to hijack your thread oldnewbie, but here is a piece I still know little about and if anyone wants to chime in I would appreciate it. I believe it is a 1743 George 11 Old Head Crown.

JadeRareCoin

That's a British Crown; KM# 585.1 (Dav.# 1349). Nice piece.

Oldnewbie

<< <i>I don't mean to hijack your thread oldnewbie, >>



No problem, the longer these types of threads hang around, the happier I am.

Eric