Registries

Bear

and the problem of crossing over coins from other TPG. This is a problem that has made me drop out of the Registry Program

for my type coins. I refuse to be kept a hostage to the seeming irratic grading pracrices by both of the top tier Services.

To be unable to cross a coin to PCGS after several tries only to see someone else cross the identical coin at a later date

has made me confused, frustrated and angry. I believe that both major services play games to protect their specific nitch,

even though this game may prove detrimental to collecting in the long run. I do not have a crystal ball, nor do I have a list

of suggestions to make ,other then to stabilize the grading qualifications to insure a more consistant graded product by both services.

I am not going to continue the regrade game for coins I know are a higher grade and where my own opinion is matched by dealers

I respect for having an astute and good grading eye. This is an issue whose time has come for discussion, debate and clarification.

rainbowroosie

There is a problem crossing coins.....why should I send killer 68 roosies to PCGS just to recieve a DNC????.... No, this is not sour grapes on my part. I know what PCGS 68s look like and these coins blow most of them away.....Above 67, PCGS will not cross roosies.

roadrunner

And in 90%+ of the time, PCGS will not cross ANY NGC 67 type coin, period. At least not without a note from either GW Bush or Alan Hager!

roadrunner

lablover

Cash flow...it's all about cash flow. And, we're helping them to play the game. IMO

Colorfulcoins

Bill, you know full well that PCGS DOES cross NGC MS68 Roosies....I've crossed 1, Nick has probably crossed half a dozen, and I know of one crossed just within the last severalmonths (a 1949S). Now.......that's not to say that all of these SHOULd have crossed and and some other very deserving coins that didn't SHOULD have......it is a game and the there is a pot of gold atthe end of this twisted rainbow......

lablover

<< <i>it is a game and the there is a pot of gold atthe end of this twisted rainbow...... >>



Craig,
Yep, what I said, you said, we all said. Wow, that was fun.

gary

MY WAKEUP CALL CAME when I bought collection of NGC moderns, all proof 70's,none crossed,82% went 69,rest lower.
Gary

jcping

This is the dealers' dream that NGC coins could go into set registry so that they could move high grade NGC coins in the market. Yes, there are many good/nice/superb coins in NGC holders. BUT .... Why did so many folks play the cross-over games? Why did them want to put their best coins into PCGS holders? We always said "it is financially incentive." Do we ever ask whether they simply want to put best coins into best holders?"

There is a POLL in this forum to ask whether we should accept NGC coins in registry. The answer is NO. Why to put second class coins into the first class league games. If PCGS allows NGC coins into set registry, how many of us will drop off the set registry?

We always blast PCGS is bad here and problem there. Why don't dealers and NGC lovers tell NGC that they should do a better job so that more folks will cross PCGS coins into NGC holders

Again, collect coins not the holders. More better coins could be found in PCGS holders, just MHO.

mercurynut

I see no difference between the eye quality of a coin in NGC plastic as copared to PCGS plastic and yet you pay so much more for a PCGS plastic. I am starting to buy mostly NGC and save the money.

tradedollarnut

In this matter, my opinions are distinct from Legend:

First of all, PCGS sets the rules for the Registry and we can either participate or not participate. Collecting and playing the Registry game are two separate but related issues. As a collector, I have no problem buying an NGC coin if it's the finest known, acknowledged as such and truly is all there - or if it's the finest example I'm likely to acquire. As a Registry game player, I have to accept that if the coin isn't crossed, I either have to downgrade it in order for it to participate, buy a duplicate in the right holder for the game, or I have to leave a hole in the Registry - even tho I have no hole in my set.

Second, I have learned that just about any coin will cross.... eventually. Grade inflation is a fact of life. It may take a year, or two, or five... or even 10. but eventually the darn thing will cross.

I feel bad that a fellow collector feels he got the shaft and gave up on his set. A lot of people do the same thing during the learning process of many games. They either find out they can't hack it or they get frustrated that they aren't getting better and they give up. Nothing new here.

And last of all - the most frustrating thing for me is the changing landscape of what is the finest. I love a coin that I research and find that it's always been acknowledged as the ultimate of the date. NOTHING is more frustrating to me that to pay for the finest graded and then pay even more for the new upgrade down the road. And what's driving this frustrating part of the game? Crossovers. It's well known where the coins go up and then they get crossed. And when not enough of them are crossed then the natives get their pitchforks and torches. Enough already.

jcping

mercurynut, good luck. For the series that I collect, I see heaven and hell between PCGS and NGC. The series are
1) Standing liberty quarters (Full Head)
2) Ike dollars (top grade)
3) Statehood quarters (MS67/MS68)
4) Two cents (RedBrown, MS65 and better)

I don't know merc very well so that I can't comment on it.

Waldo

I have bought both PCGS and NGC graded coins for years. Lately all I buy is PCGS. I don't have time to cherry pick NGC coins and PCGS is the toughest grader in the series I collect. People pay lower prices for NGC coins ( or other lesser graders) and than pitch a beeatch (edited for forbidden word) that their coins don't cross!!! It seems lately that most here are chasing the almighty buck and the love of collecting is secondary.

Boom

I can see and undertand both sides of this picture. As manofcoins stated to this effect (example) When there were less than 100 PCGS 66 1955-D Washington Quarters, they commanded a hefty premium. Now suppose PCGS crossed every NGC 66/ 67 or a second tier service 68 to 66-all in pursuit of the first 67. population would skyrocket and your coin that was worth $500 or so now is worth $350 or so. The more PCGS population increases, especially on low pop PCGS coins, the less our one-time rare investments become worth. If overnight pop on a semi-key goes from 99 to a couple hundred, we stand to lose our backsides!

OK, so what happens when a true contender that really ought to make the grade comes along? We have a Situation, don't we? These are the perils of investing in the rare coin market which we all should know by now is very volatile. This is also why I have not submitted several rolls of key dates. If I do this not only do I hurt myself but all my fellow collectors, as well. Handle with care- this is a dangerous situation! If things worked as they really should, a lot of people would lose BIG TIME! JMHO

jacktheknife

To make the cross overs easier at this point would kill my investment

I agree with Craig. The point is long gone at which PCGS could have changed things. A majority of the present problem is a direct result of a crafty marketing ploy - The Registry. "Back in the day", long before the registry, I had PCGS, NGC and even ANACS coins in my Lincoln collection. I hand picked all of them. For a given grade, they were all technically equal with wonderful eye appeal.
Along came the registry. Demand for PCGS graded coins went up and consequently, so did the prices. PCGS kept tight control on the supply by "cherrypicking" the flood of coins submitted by people trying to cash in on the rising demand and prices. A viscious cycle ensued. Soon PCGS DID have better coins in their holders and incredible premiums were being paid for their coins. As far as Lincolns go, "buying the coin" now means buying the holder as well. In a majority of the cases, PCGS Lincolns are just plain "nicer" than other TPGs for a given grade.
It's the current state of affairs and PCGS is just making too much money for them to change. There's just no going back.

jcping

> The differnce you see in the quality has to do with the registry game. People keep cracking out the best looking NGC coins and send them into PCGS because the holder means more than the coin.

Where is the problem? Are you telling all top tier students not to go to Ivy League schools but state college is good enough

marcmoish

The differnce you see in the quality has to do with the registry game. People keep cracking out the best looking NGC coins and send them into PCGS because the holder means more than the coin.

that is also true indeed - good point !

relayer

The crackout game turned off one serious collector from buying coins.

P.T. was contacted by a dealer with a pop 1 PCGS coin and paid the 6-figure price.

But it turns out the coin was still in it's NGC holder at that grade and the dealer couldn't get it in a PCGS holder. (The collector eventually got his money eventually)

To me, that's just fraud, but it's not just the collectors vanity that come into play for crossovers, it is mostly the greed of the dealers.

I used to have a lot of Registry Sets, but have retired most of them. I have my 8-piece gold set pedigreed because it's something I'll keep, but other than that I'm down to Statehood Quarters and SAC's for my Registry sets.

puff

<< <i>

<< <i>This is the dealers' dream that NGC coins could go into set registry so that they could move high grade NGC coins in the market. Yes, there are many good/nice/superb coins in NGC holders. BUT .... Why did so many folks play the cross-over games? Why did them want to put their best coins into PCGS holders? We always said "it is financially incentive." Do we ever ask whether they simply want to put best coins into best holders?"

There is a POLL in this forum to ask whether we should accept NGC coins in registry. The answer is NO. Why to put second class coins into the first class league games. If PCGS allows NGC coins into set registry, how many of us will drop off the set registry?

We always blast PCGS is bad here and problem there. Why don't dealers and NGC lovers tell NGC that they should do a better job so that more folks will cross PCGS coins into NGC holders

Again, collect coins not the holders. More better coins could be found in PCGS holders, just MHO. >>

>>



too.