For sellers: Is PayPal worth it?

jrdolan

Question for those who accept PayPal and those who no longer do. Does PayPal or the lack of it affect the number and level of bids in your auctions? If you dumped PayPal, was it worth it?

RobBobGolf

PayPal is Fantastic.

I would not be able to handle the volume I do without it.

95% of my buyers pay with it. That should tell you something.

RobBob

CON40

The convenience comes with a very steep percentage per transaction however. I think 5%? I think it actually nets out even higher because of secondary fees they charge as well. That's significantly more than any credit card company would charge. Keep that in mind if you use it to collect funds.

nearmint

PayPal's fees are 2-3%, depending on how much money you collect. This is about the same as the merchant fees for credit cards. I'm unaware of any "secondary fees." Want to elaborate, CON40?

I have never taken a poll, but since 2/3 of the people who bid in my auctions pay with PayPal, I would guess that some of them would not bid if I didn't take PayPal. It's convenient for both the buyer and me, and I think it's worth the fees.

On my website, around 40% pay with PayPal, 40% with a credit card, and 20% with a check.

Mike

MorrellMan

Just my two cents: as a busy buyer and a sometime seller, I will complete a transaction in the easiest manner. Paypal is the easiest for me as a buyer, but I have never not bid on an item because paypal wasn't offered, and I don't use it as a seller.

RedRomad275

By all means Paypal is worth it. Whether you are a seller or buyer it expedites transactions. There are records of all your transactions versus checks and m/o where only one party knows for sure. The fees are a reasonable price to pay for more piece of mind.

aro13

As a buyer I very seldom will bid on auctions that do not take paypal. As a seller about 95% of my buyers use paypal.

ctsoxfan

As a seller, PayPal is pretty much the only way to go for me. I only sell part time, and with my busy schedule, it makes it easy to track who has paid, when they paid, and no trips are required anywhere to cash checks or money orders.

As a buyer, I pretty much only bid where I can pay this way (a few exceptions, like DSL). PayPal has saved me a few times when I didn't receive items I paid for, without the protection, I would be at the mercy of the seller for a refund.

jrdolan

I agree on the convenience, protection and instant gratification for the buyer (and there's no fee on that end). I certainly use it when possible when I'm buying something.

For a seller, though, it's a different ballgame. There's the fees (when added to eBay's cut, you could be looking at 10% or more of your sale price). And there's the factor that PayPal automatically requires a refund if a buyer claims non-delivery and you can't provide a tracking number that proves otherwise. (Come on, if there's a tracking number that proves delivery, the buyer wouldn't be filing a claim -- either because he has no cause for complaint or because he knows the scam won't work)

Anyway, just considering dropping PayPal as a payment option and wondering if anyone else has done that with good results. DSL and Skerbe and some other big sellers only take checks or money orders and they don't seem to be withering on the vine. That may be because they are already established and trusted in the hobby.

qualitycards

As a full time seller its great! If I didn't have Paypal, I would have to have another avenue to accept credit cards and it wouldn't be any cheaper, in fact when I had a store, the American Express company wasn't linked to Visa/Mastercard so I had to have 2 accounts w/ 2 companies at different %'s and terms. Plus Paypal allows me to use the money seconds after a buyer sends it, I also have a Paypal credit card that can use the money in my account just as quick, no need to wait for a wire transfer.
Roughly 3 of every 4 eBay sales are Paypal, and many within minutes of the auctions end. It sure beats waiting a week or possibly longer on a check and then worrying if it will clear. Plus on several occasions I've rec'd cash or money orders in the mail and had to play detective of what it was for. With Paypal the item # is clearly listed w/ the buyers address, no scribble or any problems to figure it out.
And many buyers tend to only bid on Paypal eBay auctions and some bid higher knowing its not out of pocket money and they can tap the credit card, sure they will regret it when the credit card bill arrives, but at the time of bidding it may not be a consideration...jay

ctsoxfan

<< <i>some bid higher knowing its not out of pocket money >>



That's another good point, Jay. I often bid with my PayPal money like I am playing with casino chips...well, not exactly, but you get the point. If I have to actually write the check out (or go and get a money order), it seems like "real" money to me...

magellan

Out of 16 auctions that ended last weekend, 75% paid with Paypal. It is certainly more convenient both as a buyer and a seller. I will sometimes bypass auctions that don't offer Paypal as a payment method , depending on how baly I want the item.

<< <i>There's the fees (when added to eBay's cut, you could be looking at 10% or more of your sale price). >>

That's just about the percentage it cost me on the previously mentioned auctions.

Dave

sjeanblanc

Paypal is great for processing transactions, their volume gets you a discount percentage over you becoming a credit card merchant yourself. If you were to be your own credit card processing merchant, you have to buy or lease the processing equipment and software, pay a higher processing fee because you won't have high enough transaction volume, will your buyers trust you with their card info, and you have to sign up with each of the card issuers Visa/Mastercard, Discover, American Express, etc., and each has its own fee percentages, some higher than others. Paypal gives you this in one nice neat package.

Now Paypal has some baggage that comes with them, but I truely believe that those transactions that we all hear about are calculated criminal actions, not the actions of the vast majority of the eBay or Web buying population.

Paypal fees and eBay fees, while they do cut into your bottom line, they are nothing compared to what you would be paying if you were selling your items in a brick and mortar facility, its just the cost of doing business.

Now I collect Nolan Ryan cards and I love auctions that take Paypal because it gets me my cards faster, but I sell all my other cards as an Internet Business Sole Proprietorship and I wouldn't be able to do that without eBay and Paypal. Eventually I'll get around to setting up a website as well, probably after I get canned this fall, and Paypal business components will help me set the site up for transaction processing.

Is Paypal worth it? Yes, every tax deductible penny of it.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
----------------------------------------------------
Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

Stone193

From a Buyer's perspective - and input for those who sell - I would not bid if they didn't take paypal.
For those who don't want to give up the fees - I have an office and accept credit cards - Amex, then discover take the biggest chunk at about 3% - small price to pay to insure payment. My overhead runs about 65% - just wanted to throw that out to put the paypal fees in perspective.
When I begin to sell on ebay, I can't see doing business without it.
Mike

nearmint

If you were to be your own credit card processing merchant, you have to buy or lease the processing equipment and software, pay a higher processing fee because you won't have high enough transaction volume, will your buyers trust you with their card info, and you have to sign up with each of the card issuers Visa/Mastercard, Discover, American Express, etc., and each has its own fee percentages, some higher than others.

This is only partially true. I accept credit cards, and I didn't have to buy or lease any equipment. My processing fees are about the same as PayPal's, though I have light (compared to most retailers) transaction volume. And since Verisign handles my customer's online payments, I never see my buyer's credit card numbers--though they might not realize it.

Mike

iamthegreatcornholio

If this is regarding a business account……

At first glance, I would say yes like many of you have said. But, after closer examination, I don’t believe so. If anyone else has ever tracked prices of seller who take PayPal vs non-PayPal users, I’d be curious to see the numbers. There are some huge sellers like dslsports that do just fine, and don’t take PayPal. In the auctions for the same items that I’ve seen it wasn’t very conclusive that PayPal drove up the bids. It’s an extra 3% out-of-your-end and also a huge headache if you get scammed. The only reason that I accept it as a seller is because as a buyer I love it, and want to return the favor.

Brian

qualitycards

<< <i>The only reason that I accept it as a seller is because as a buyer I love it, and want to return the favor. >>


BRIAN - And if you love it as a buyer, many others do too! (myself incl). With me, it is a big hassle to not use Paypal. Ya gotta write down or make a copy of what you won, get an envelope, address it & put a .37 cent stamp on it, make out a check or spend more money & time for a money order, and hope that the post office delivers it in a timely fashion, and of course hope that the seller ships quickly instead of waiting the funds to clear. When I win my auctions, usually its paid via Paypal when the notification is sent to me, just minutes after the auction ended, and all the expense is on the seller, it couldn't be more easy...jay

packCollector

this is what I like about paypal, if jay (qualitycards) didn't take paypal, I would not have my card monday morning when the auction ended Friday night. I want my cards yesterday and hate to wait. with checks and money orders, you need to go get the money order, mail it , wait for it to arrive , then get your cards somewhere down the road. to much of a hassle for me. If I see 2 identical auctions and one takes paypal and one doesn't , I will bid more on the auction with paypal for the convience.

as a seller , if you are smart , you can avoid the scams , look at the buyers and you get a good idea what you are dealing with, I always will pay the 45 cents for tracking on buyers with low feedback. for buyers I deal with reagularly I don't bother. the fees should end up at around 7% total with ebay if you are starting with low minimums and no reserves. you can also get your paypla fees(1.5%) back by using the credit card too

Stone193

<< <i> in fact when I had a store, the American Express company wasn't linked to Visa/Mastercard so I had to have 2 accounts w/ 2 companies at different %'s and terms. >>


Jay
It is a pain - I have one vendor (that in itself is a very competitive business - they all want to give the best % deal) with the terminal but as you said, they deposit visa/master, amex and discover SEPARATELY - so you have to enter them separately in your deposits everyday and then reconcile those three daily transactions every month when balancing the checking account. Anything you can do to simplify your life and spend a small amount of money doing it is well worth the tariff.
Mike

JonB

every now and then I won't bid on a very cheap item (under $10) if they don't take paypal just because i don't feel like writing a check for $.99 and having to wait 3 weeks for my card to show up. unless of course its a rare item i can't find anywhere else

generally speaking if there are 2 identical items, going for the same price, both from respectable sellers, i'll bid on the one that takes paypal just so I won't have to go through the hassle of writing a check. not to mention it can mean I get the card sometimes even 2 weeks sooner.

however, as a seller as well, the fees are EXTREMELY high on small value items. if your item sells on ebay for $0.99, by the time you pay ebay the $0.30 listing fee, and paypal the $0.30 + the percentage $, its all you can do to break even.

DeutscherGeist

I am a small time buyer on ebay, but one with a perfect record, mind you. I would like to sell some of the stuff I have in my garage on ebay, but I hesitate since Paypal froze my account.

I want to accomodate all kinds of paying customers and fear that since I cannot accpet paypal, I would not have many bids. Just because I had a terrible experience with paypal and have been wronged by it and a seller, I still think paypal is neat because it makes buying and selling fast and easy.

When selling, its wise to get delivery confirmation since it protects you from scam artist buyers. But I heard that paypal now has a new rule so a buyer can argue that items were not as described---I wonder how that works. Maybe some sellers here can share their experiences.

We live in a culture of convenience and instant gratification, so any seller could only benefit from it. Unless the items are unique, a seller must offer a variety of payment options.

I personally would not bid on an auction that does not take personal checks, unless the item is rare and hard to find. More and more sellers refuse personal checks, so I refuse them. I hate to us money order because it costs money and hassle to drive to the post office.

So, if you sellers want to offer a variety of payment options to increase bids, then accpet personal checks too. Perhaps there may be a problem of accepting personal checks that I don't know about.

Jersey

I realize that some people don't like PayPal but I love it. It makes buying and selling much easier. I won an eBay auction a few weeks ago with the seller located in Czechoslovakia. Since I didn't have to mail a check, the item arrived in just six days.

RobE

Paypal fees and ebay fees are horrible but you can't escape the price you pay to be in business be it flipping your dupes or volume sales.

Since Paypal is used so much and they take so much you might as well get the debit card and take advantage of the few things they give back despite the fact that you will never break even.

Use the Paypal card as a credit everywhere from the gas station to the Post office and earn 1.5% back.Not much but if you have slightly over $67 weekly shipping bill (For example) that's a whole dollar x 52 on the year. $52.

Use it to pay your ebay fees where you add the credit card # to your pay those pesky ebay fees. Say for the month you average $150 in fees.$2.25 x 12 = $27

If you need cash you are allowed up to $400 a day if you go where you can take a cash advance 1.5% x $400 = $6.That sure as hell beats using it like an ATM and being charged $1.25 and up on ATM machines.

If you make $1000 purchase make $15.

Just some stuff to think about.

jrdolan

<< <i>But I heard that paypal now has a new rule so a buyer can argue that items were not as described---I wonder how that works. Maybe some sellers here can share their experiences. >>



When a buyer files a claim that an item is "not as described," PayPal does not do a chargeback. To the contrary, their position is that it is a dispute about the quality of the goods and tell you to work it out with the seller.

If the seller is a scam artist and has disappeared, but has sent you some junk in place of the valuable item you paid for, well then you are royally screwed. I once was scammed for $950 on a 1965 Mantle PSA 8 that the seller never owned. Instead he sent me some junk 2003 commons. Because he sent me "something," according to PayPal, it was a dispute over quality. Scammers know this and use it to prevent a chargeback. They even use delivery confirmation.

Anyway, my experience with "item not as described" is that PayPal will not get into it, not even when commons are sent instead of a $950 Mantle. They want you to work it out with the seller. The fact that the seller has disappeared does not make a difference.

BTW, my story had a happy ending, but only because the punk scammer was found and threat of jail forced his father to pay up. PayPal and eBay were useless.

SDSportsFan

As a buyer, I will not bid on an item from a seller who does not take Paypal, unless the item is something I absolutely positively can't live without. The only exception I make with this rule is with DSL Sports. They are the only non-Paypal seller I will deal with on a regular basis.

I just have very little time to have to worry about buying and addressing envelopes, buying stamps and going to the post office to mail the checks.

Steve

parrotpaul

Most of my buyers use PayPal, and I like it when I buy. It takes enormous amounts of work out of any transaction, and they do all the accounting and paperwork. I do however pay using Discover through PayPal if given the chance...Discover gives money back to me.

This past week I ran into two problems with personal checks. I try to always call their bank and verify funds. The two checks were for under $20 each. Driving around south OC, CA is no treat, and if I can finish a business transaction from my computer I save time, gas money, aggravating lines at banks, and the money is instant. Yup, PayPal costs, but what it saves me is $$$$.

A round trip to the bank in my car costs approximately .58 in gas these days (car gets 19MPG in city driving, and gas is now 2.23 out here), add in another trip to the post office, and all that begins to make PayPal look like a real deal.

fsjeter

I use it as both a buyer and seller. It really does help expedite the transactions also. Now that Paypal is offering financing to buyers, were bound to see more high dollar auctions close with a buyer. It seems to be win-win. I admit, I was a little peaved the first time I got charged for receiving money but the fee really isn't all that bad.

gemint

I've avoided Paypal up to this point for two major reasons:

1) The danger of having charge backs after sending the item(s)
2) I sell a lot of vintage commons under $10 and wouldn't want to add credit card fees on top of the already thin margins.

If I add to my auction listings that I accept Paypal cash transfers but not credit cards, do you think that would satisfy many Paypal buyers? How many actually pay with their credit cards for low $ transactions?

parrotpaul

<< <i> How many actually pay with their credit cards for low $ transactions? >>



I use my Discover to pay for anything I can through PayPal. Discover returns money to me for using the card. I always pay the entire balance monthly...no interest charges, and Discover protects me should I not get my product.

Golfcollector

I was hosed by a large paypal transaction a few years ago and got significantly below average customer service from them. I do not take paypal for any of my auctions and have not realized a problem from it.

Dave

envoy98

As much as PayPal pi$$e$ me off sometimes and as much as they charge... I won't bid on auctions that don't accept it. It really is too much of a hassle for me to get to the ATM to get cash, then to the post office to pick up, fill-out and mail a money order that I can't even be sure ever arrives, at least not for 60 days. And I refuse to pay extra fees to Western Union to mail one for me when they give no protection anyway. I have noticed, with my own auctions and on many other auctions that if the paypal logo is not displayed the bids are lower. That holds true on just about anything I bid on. I can almost always tell if one auction is 10-20% less and ending about the same time, sure enough if I go look at it, it usually doesn't accept paypal or the shipping is outrageous. I would say 9x out of 10 it's one of those two reasons. I still hate paypal, but they do provide a service, it costs me a ridiculous amount to use that service but I do get more bids, better tracking and usually a bit more money. Plus some false sense of security that makes me just feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

envoy98

Edited: Double post

jrdolan

<< <i>Plus some false sense of security that makes me just feel all warm and fuzzy inside. >>



The sense of security is all on the buyers' side, though, and they're not the ones paying the fees. All a buyer has to do is say the item didn't arrive. If you don't have a confirmation tracking number (signature required if over $250), you must refund. No ifs, ands or buts, it's automatic. I suspect that non-confirmed deliveries will develop into a lucrative source of income for eBay scammers, if it hasn't already.

That's one of the big downsides for sellers. I agree with the upsides mentioned here ... and for buyers, it's all upside.

Fabfrank

If I add to my auction listings that I accept Paypal cash transfers but not credit cards, do you think that would satisfy many Paypal buyers?

Gemint, there are many sellers who stipulate this. I don't have a problem with it as long as it is written in the auction or payment description.

envoy98

<< <i>and for buyers, it's all upside >>



Unless, the seller sends you some junk as in jrdolan's case. I had a seller do the exact same thing to me. Pd $550 for about a dozen different cards. After 2 months and complaints filed with IFCC/Ebay and Paypal I finally got a box...Of course that box had delivery confirmation and of course, you guessed it, only 3 of my dozen cards came. Paypal was satisfied, complaint was removed...done. I threatened to call the cops and wouldn't you know, about 2 weeks later the rest of my stuff showed up. No thanks to paypal or ebay... In fact, the IFCC has never even contacted me in almost a year to see if I ever resolved my complaint. I filed it, but never got a follow up from tehm. Ever. That is really useless.

Edited to say: by the way jrdolan, glad to see you got your bench pic working!

sagard

PayPal offers little buyer protection on larger transactions. They cover the first $500, then say sorry we can't recover any additional funds from the seller, but we will keep trying. I'm guessing if they ever recover the difference, they will pocket it.

jrdolan

I should have said, for buyers it's all upside... EXCEPT for the loopholes that these scammers find, like the one envoy98 and I experienced. Pretty sad, when all they have to do is send you some commons with delivery confirmation to ensure that PayPal will not reverse the charge. As for eBay, all they will do is thank you for your email and promise they will look into it but will not tell you the outcome due to privacy issues.

envoy, the Bench icon showed up for me many hours after you posted it. Thanks. Hard to believe nobody has put up a Bench until now!