Question for Large Cent experts

Shoedog

Anyone know the reason for the incuse dentils between the lettering and the wreath on S-232?

It is not a normal clashmark as it is way too far in from the edge.Maybe the obverse dye fell out?

Anyone know?

Any interesting ideas on the cause?

Anything like this on any other coins?

Its a very nice coin with alot of dyebreaks and clashmarks.

Now I'm going to crack it out of it's plastic coffin(ANACS EF40).Dorkkarl would be proud........

Coin Finder

Great question. I would have to think that the obverse die struck the reverse die without a copper plancet and off center imparting the part of the obverse dentil design on the reverse die and then on the coins.

That is all I can think of. I am no expert though.

Tbig

Shoedog

An offcenter clashmark.......thats pretty neat.

I wonder if there alot of off center coins of this variety.You would think that if the dies had time to clash off center there would see alot of off center coins.

JadeRareCoin

Great question. I have always been told that the dentils in the reverse field were clashmarks, but the placement is illogical. What's really strange about S-232 is that there are several other clash marks about on both the obverse and reverse, yet the other clashmarks are in logical locations (the dies clashed in the correct die alignment). The only thing that I can think of is that the misplaced dentils resulted from an unusual mishap at the mint. For example, the dies must have clashed when they were not centered, so the damage probably occured during the die set-up process, before any cents were struck. This is logical since ALL known S-232 cents have the dentil clashmarks. How the dies could have been mis-aligned to such a large degree is a mystery to me. I would assume that the shank alignment on the press would have prevented such a large mis-alignment. Still doesn't make any sense.

A long shot theory is that the dentils are from a clash with a half cent obverse die, since the dentil clashes seem to be concentric with the reverse die and of the correct diameter. I mentioned this idea to someone before and they laughed at me. It's possible, since I have seen crazier things happen, like a Flying Eagle Cent die clashed with a Seated Half Dollar die. Maybe it was not an accident that the mint guys were making coins with half cent obverses and cent reverses. We know of the Flying Eagle/Seated Half clashes, but nobody has ever seen the fantasy coins struck from those dies. Hmmmmm.....maybe I am on to something here.

You would think that if the dies had time to clash off center there would see alot of off center coins.

There are off-center large cents known from this period, but the are the result of the planchets not resting properly in the open collar. Dies that clash "off-center" is really unheard of.

Conder101

There are other coins and series with clashmarks that far off so this isn't unique. What is odd is that this variety comes in an earlier state without the clashmarks so it wasn't something that happened when they first set up the press. I suspect the set screw came loose and the obv die did fall out and the dies clashed. That was probably when the die chipped below the 18.

JadeRareCoin

Conder is correct, as usual; I checked my Breen reference and there is a die state without clash marks. I have never seen one without the marks, so I always though that all S-232 cents had the dentil clash.