Interesting article on ESPN.com

qmayer · June 15, 2004 11:30AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/sportsbusiness/news/story?id=1821931

Talks about how today's cards are more of a gamble rather than collecting. Doesn't go too deep into the subject but its a nice reminder of how the companies are squashing the kids out of the market

WinPitcher · June 15, 2004 11:55AM

can u say C R A P

JonB · June 15, 2004 11:58AM

Might as well take your $500 to vegas and at least get to pull the handle a few hundred times instead of taking 10 seconds to open a pack.

scottsusor · June 15, 2004 7:37PM

And some people are in awe of over $1000 being paid for a graded vintage common that's a known commodity being purchased in an effort to complete a valuable complete set? THIS should put THAT in perspective.

But, speaking of perspective -- What the dude in this story is doing is about as comparable to the hobby of sports card collecting as Rosie O'Donnell is to Heather Locklear. And what the card companies are doing with their "expensive packs" loaded with "special cards" is really no different than what Nieman-Marcus does that Wal-Mart doesn't. They're offering a different product to a different market. I really don't see this as squashing kids out of the market. This is not a kid's market to begin with -- unless your father happens to be Donald Trump or Bill Gates.

Scott

yawie99 · June 15, 2004 9:47PM

True indeed. Still, can you imagine how shocking this article must be to espn.com readers who are virtually oblivious to the current state of the hobby?

Dennis88 · June 15, 2004 10:16PM

This is one of the reasons why I only collect older, vintage cards....

Dennis

Hubcap · June 15, 2004 11:03PM

I think you are all missing the point. The person who spends $1,500 on 3 packs could care less what he/she gets in them. It is the thrill/rush of ripping packs. If they get something nice in them, it's a bonus. Most of the cards are thrown away or sold for 10% of book to a dealer who flips them for 20-25% of book to another dealer, puts them up at EBAY or sells them at 50% of book retail at a show.

GoSoxBoSox · June 16, 2004 12:12AM

Nice read and even better comments from the forum members. When I read stories like this I often wonder if this "gambling" helps the hobby or simply turns more people off? I think it turns more people off. I know years ago when chase cards became more prominent I stopped buying modern. I saw it as a hot today, gone tomorrow market. I equate this type of collecting to options trading....risky as hell. You're in it for the big score and the rush. I'm a collector for the long haul, not a gambler.

I wish my two sons could get the enjoyment I got as a kid. 25 cents a pack. Trading with my friends. Chewing the crappy gum. Where we compiled tens of thousands of card as kids, most kids today are lucks to get a few thousand over their entire childhood.

Those days remain for me but at a different scale with folks like all of you. But, our kids just won't get that experience with the cards from there generation. That flat out sucks!!

Fabfrank · June 16, 2004 12:13AM

Guys, forget all the "gloom and doom" of sportscards and "oh the poor kids can't afford the hobby" and "vintage is better/modern is overproduced and sucks" rants. We are in a golden age of collecting. Any kid/collector has a choice of product ranging from $1-$500 per pack. What one person likes about the hobby shouldn't affect what YOU like about the hobby. There is no difference between this guy in the ESPN article and the vintage collector who gradesa low pop common and sells it for huge multiples of SMR. The hobby has evolved so that set collectors, GU collectors, autograph guys, speculators and investors an all enjoy and profit from the hobby.
There are more choices for collectors today than ever before. Don't whine "oh there are too many sets produced today, no one can collect all of them". Who said you had too?!? Find a product that you like at a price you can afford and participate in this hobby in the way that makes you happy.

BugOnTheRug · June 16, 2004 12:36AM

Well said Fab...........

BOTR

helionaut · June 16, 2004 1:15AM

I don't see these packs as gambling, as you are getting something for your money each time. And anyway, if there was no such thing as collecting sportscards, the people who buy these packs would certainly find something else to spend their money on.

My local shop has packs of Exquisite sitting on a shelf and not 2 feet away are packs of Topps Total, the 99-cent brand. Don't worry about the kids. If they have true interest in the hobby, there's plenty available at any price point. If they think this brand is the best thing to get, fine. If they just like ripping to find high-dollar cards, they are really after something else. I know after a summer of mowing lawns, spending all the money earned on a single pack would probably teach them quite a lesson about value.

I just hope that this auction comes out legitimately, unlike many other recent 5-figure auction prices for brand new cards. Surely with this publicity some moron is going to put in a $10 million bid and screw it up for everyone.

AlanAllen · June 16, 2004 1:41AM

What you guys say about choice is great in theory, but in practice it hurts the hobby. Most collectors are completists by nature, which is why you hear collectors complain about not being able to build every set. It's demoralizing, and drives people away. Don't even get me started on what masterpieces have done to player collectors.

And, young collectors often lack the discrimination to choose a set, and default to wanting the "best," with price being the main determining factor of "best." If you've been in a shop or at a show with kids, you'll know what I'm talking about. It's great to say the kids can have their 99 cent product, but the fact is the kids want the $500 product and it's the adults buying the 99 cent product. If the "best" was 99 cents, kids would be fine with it, but since the best is outside of their price range, they get frustrated and buy Yu-Gi-Oh.

Joe

GoSoxBoSox · June 16, 2004 2:01AM

Fab-

Can't we all express our opinions on the hobby without being called whiners? Sometimes opinion are complaints. I think AlanAllen's post backs-up my opinion well and clearly states what I was trying to say.

That is, what used to be a kids hobby is now an adults hobby (for the most part). I agree with you that we all have choices and different wants. And certainly the market has changed to meet those demands. It was inevitable I guess.

I just would've liked my sons to be able to share in thrills of the hobby as I knew it. I wanted to get Carl Yastrzemski in my packs. Now it's a chase card. Any chase card worth money. Who cares who it is.

The kids have their own thrills...they'll just be much different.

gemint · June 16, 2004 2:05AM

I've got no problem if someone wants to spend $500 or $10 million for a pack full of manufactured rarities. The only thing I hate to see is when rare vintage items are destroyed to make these GU cards. It will be interesting to see what all these 1/100 subsets of subsets of subsets are worth in 25 years.

Dennis88 · June 16, 2004 2:10AM

<< <i>25 cents a pack. Trading with my friends. Chewing the crappy gum. Where we compiled tens of thousands of card as kids, most kids today are lucks to get a few thousand over their entire childhood. >>

Wish I could have done that!!!

Dennis

GoSoxBoSox · June 16, 2004 2:13AM

<< <i>

<< <i>25 cents a pack. Trading with my friends. Chewing the crappy gum. Where we compiled tens of thousands of card as kids, most kids today are lucks to get a few thousand over their entire childhood. >>

Wish I could have done that!!!

Dennis

>>

My point exactly. Thanks Dennis.

But to Fabfranks point....I'm sure everyone is enjoying their new experiences too.

RayDBonz · June 16, 2004 2:21AM

Squashing the kids out of the market!! This sort of fecal droppings is one reason I no longer collect modern cards & I haven't been called a kid in quite some time!!

A few years back I had well over 700 DIFFERENT Patrick Roy cards. I figured I'd try to get one of every one ever made. Then the jersey cards started. No problem, only one the first year. Then the patches, the numbers, the autographed jersies, etc. OK, managed to track those down, even found a cool patch card with the NHLPA logo on it. Then the really limited stuff started - I had a bunch of 1 of 10 and 1 of 5, etc. Then the one-of-one crap started and I decided I had had enough. There was no way to complete a player set so I quit. I sold what I had at a loss and moved on. It's probably worth even less today.

Now I stick with HOF rookies. Nothing after 1990 when players have a half-dozen or more "rookie cards". If and when these young kids get elected to the HOF, their cards will not grace my collection. There are way too many high-grade examples. Sorry kids.

If I buy a game-used jersey or sweater, it's the whole thing, not a scrap mounted on a card. I refuse to buy any of this current crop where they have destroyed priceless artifacts like sweaters & equiptment used by Sawchuk, Plante, Brimsek, etc. to put on cards. These pieces belong in the Hall of Fame or a museum, not chopped up by a card company!!

<rant mode off>

Bill

Mefer · June 16, 2004 3:31AM

As I just realized today, this card was pulled from one of my local card shops here in Fresno, California. I know the store owner; I am really happy for the publicity he is receiving. I have seen the purchaser in the store before. I know just from watching that he buys tons of packs and tons of everything. Here is a link from the Fresno Bee:

http://www.fresnobee.com/local/

Fabfrank · June 16, 2004 5:06AM

Can't we all express our opinions on the hobby without being called whiners?

GoSoxBoSox- I wasn't singling out anyone in particular and especially not you. Unfortunately whenever a thread comes up about modern card collecting, the posts mostly end up ridiculing the modern card collector for what they buy.

This sort of fecal droppings is one reason I no longer collect modern cards

This sort of comment is just a typical example. Now if you collected modern cards, wouldn't you be offended by this type of "opinion"

I frequent about 6-10 shows per year. Kids are there buying cards, and McFarlanes, and Yu-Gi-oh, and pennants, and pins, and bobbleheads. We didn't have all the choices that kids have today, but if we did I'm sure those pieces of cardboard with the crappy gum wouldn't seem that attractive.

AllenAlan- I agree with you that most collectors are completists, but the majority of kid collectors are not. Even the ones that buy yu-gi-oh never seem to complete the set. The point is that if a kid wanted to complete a card set, he could.

Our hobby is tremendously flexible. If you want to collect every P. Roy you can. If you can't afford it or the project is too large to undertake, you can collect just the base cards, or only the inserts, or only the GU cards. To blame the card companies for too many choices is like blaming McDonalds for being too fat. The ultimate choice lies within ourselves.

Interesting article on ESPN.com

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