2 reales that circulated in US during early 1800's

astrorat

Hello-

I am hopping over from the US forum to ask the collective wisdom on this forum a couple of questions regarding the Spanish 2 reales that circulated during the early 1800's in the US. I understand that there were two weights for the coins, the lighter being known as the pistareen. In checking the various Krause world books, I am not able to discern the dates or types that were the lighter weights. Okay, now the questions:

Which coins were called pistareens?
Can you recommend a dealer who sells nice VF/EF examples?

Thanks, folks.

Lane

GDJMSP

The pistareen is a different coin altogether than the 2 reale and were only struck in Spain - not at the colonial mints. The pistareen was 20% lighter in silver than the 2 reale and had a crowned heraldic Hapsburg shield on the obverse while on the reverse was a cross with the Castile and Leon shield.

The coins minted in Spain were referred to as "new plate" since they were 20% lighter than Spanish colonial coins. This debasement was first authorized by a decree of Philip IV on December 23, 1642 in an attempt to raise funds to pay for military expeditions associated with the Thirty Years War and to put down revolts in Catalonia and Portugal. The debased "new plate" coinage was called the "plata provincial" (provincial silver), ostensibly only for use within Spain, while the Spanish American coinage was referred to as the "plata nacional" (national silver).

astrorat

Thanks, do you have a KM# or a website? I guess I was a bit confused when trying to locate the info in the Krause catalog.

Lane

GDJMSP

<< <i>Thanks, do you have a KM# or a website? I guess I was a bit confused when trying to locate the info in the Krause catalog.

Lane >>



In the 3rd edition 18th century Krause you will find the pistareens under Spain on page 1112. Note - they are listed a 2 reales. The KM#s include 297, 307, 308, 327, 328, 329, 340, 355, 386.1, 386.2, 388.1. The Spanish 2 reale was struck in .9030 silver while the Spanish colonial 2 reale was struck in .9170 silver.

astrorat

Thank you, that is very helpful.

Lane

astrorat

Okay, help me understand how the pistareens (2 reales from Spain, as listed in KM) were 20% lighter than the Spanish colonial 2 reales. The pistareens weighed 6.77 g, were 0.903 fine, and contained 0.1965 oz silver while the colonial 2 reales weighed 6.77 g, were 0.917 fine, and contained 0.1996 oz silver. That is less than a 2% difference in silver content. Was it an issue of the real silver content in the pistareens was a lot less than the "official" weight (or at least the content reported in KM)?

Lane

phut

The Pistareen only had .833 silver
http://www.amnumsoc.org/cnl/Pistareens.pdf

astrorat

Thank you . . . great source of information. Do you know of any reference books on Spanish silver?

Lane

GDJMSP

My mistake astrorat - I quoted the fineness from Krause and it didn't even strike me that the math didn't work out. As you can see - Krause is wrong and so was I The rest was correct though.

As for a book - I would recommend The Milled Columnarios of Central and South America by Frank F. Gilboy.

astrorat

No problem, I was just getting (or staying) a bit confused! Thanks.

Lane