PSA/DNA results

GoSoxBoSox

My Lord this was a shocker. I personally got all of these cards signed 11 years ago, some before that. I thought they would look nice displayed in my bar so I decided to get them holdered.

All 24 cards in this submission are autographed and 9 are called forgeries? How would you feel about PSA/DNA if you got these results when you knew they are wrong? $180 down the drain.

I could see them refunding your money if they don't know a players signature but this is kinda scary for me. Because when they take your money they are saying they don't believe it's real. Is that because they don't know what the palyers autograph looks like? If so, they should return my money for that card. I had Gretzky sign all kind of stuff in person and it all looks the same. It scares me to think they would call it all fake.

Does anybody have any experience in dealing with PSA/DNA in situation when you got the cards autographed yourseld and they called them forgeries? If so, any advice to apss on besides the obvious..."get over it".

When you pay $20 a pop the old saying "if the grade don't fit, you have to re-submit" gets thrown out the window!!!


11887262 1986 FLEER 638 CHARLIE HUSTLE & DR.K - ROSE & GOODEN Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887263 1974 TOPPS 95 REG LEACH N/A 5
11887264 1974 TOPPS 138 BERNIE PARENT N/A 7OC
11887265 1993 CLASSIC 4 PAUL KARIYA N/A 6
11887266 1992 STADIUM CLUB 246 PAVEL BURE MEMBER'S CHOICE 8
11887267 1992 UPPER DECK 364 KEITH TKACHUK N/A 8
11887268 1991 UPPER DECK 64 PETER FORSBERG N/A 6
11887269 1991 UPPER DECK 106 PHIL HOUSLEY N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887270 1991 UPPER DECK 302 LARRY MURPHY N/A 8
11887271 1991 UPPER DECK 324 JOHN VANBIESBROUCK N/A 6
11887272 1991 UPPER DECK 333 JOE SAKIC N/A 6
11887273 1993 ULTRA 48 TEEMU SELANNE N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887274 1993 ULTRA 57 DAVE ANDREYCHUK N/A 7
11887275 1993 ULTRA 71 PAUL COFFEY N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887276 1993 ULTRA 114 WAYNE GRETZKY N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887277 1993 ULTRA 137 MATS SUNDIN N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887278 1993 ULTRA 149 DALE HAWERCHUK N/A 5
11887279 1993 ULTRA 150 V. KONSTANTINOV N/A 6
11887280 1993 ULTRA 156 ADAM OATES N/A 7
11887281 1993 ULTRA 201 STEVE YZERMAN N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887282 1993 ULTRA 207 MIKE VERNON N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887283 1993 ULTRA 219 PAT LaFONTAINE N/A Not Holdered, Questionable Authentication
11887284 1993 ULTRA 236 MARK RECCHI N/A 6
11887285 1993 ULTRA 238 ALEXANDER MOGILNY N/A 8

murcerfan

Kid4hof03

Tom,
I'm very sorry to hear about your results. I have had some curiousity about this very topic. I realize that the autograph market needs some kind of police, but I'm just not sure about this serivce. It seems to sketchy to me that this kind of a "team" has the ability to authenticate, or in this case, not authenticate any autograph you throw at them.

I have a few that I also got in person I was considering sending in, but at $20 a pop and somewhat questionable results, I'll think twice. I really believe that the only use for a service like this is if you are planning on selling an item. To me the source of an autograph is much more important than a psa/dna letter. A reliable collector that I am confident in, won't ever need a letter or slab for me.

Abe
P.S. We are from the same neck of the woods I believe. I'm in Burlington, NJ.

1420sports

Sometimes your very own signature at times looks completely different. You hold the receipt the wrong way, feel rushed or running late, or you simply just sign it different for an unkown reason.

I feel your pain, as these were not just purchased on eBay but signed in person. Maybe with your very pen ....

Tipem

Tom,

This is a very disturbing situation.I can see where PSA would have trouble reholdering them at your word as that would open the door for anyone without ethics to say that the items were signed in person such as you have. I am not questioning your word, just my take on the whole situation.I wonder if we will get a response from the powers that be on this thread ? I won't hold my breath. Good luck,I hope that they will figure out a way to compensate you.


Vic

CON40

Tom;

Question... if you received each of these signatures in person yourself, why pay to have them authenticated? You KNOW they are authentic. Were you merely paying for the caché of a holder? No offense, but I question your logic to spend so much money on a service that you did not need.

Big picture... this is proof that it is IMPOSSIBLE to authenticate any signature with 100% certainty. I have never taken part in a PSA/DNA submission as I do not collect any autograph that I either didn't get in person or pull from a pack, but if I were to submit an autograph for authentication, I would NOT use PSA/DNA simply because I have no faith in a guy who wears a gray sweatshirt in his official company by-line photo (see Jim Spence photo in SMR). This lack of profesionalism speaks volumes to me, personally. If someone is going to authenticate something rare and expensive for me (and charge me an arm and a leg to do it!), I want that guy in an Armani suit wearing Coke bottle glasses with loupes on both lenses!

Just my humble opinion.

jimtb

I have often wondered how they identify and certify lesser known players as legit. Players signatures can change for a variety of reasons. Do you sign your name the same way when your in a hurry? How can PSA possibly determine that? Your results make me question the entire process. Seems to me there should be at least a partial refund in there somewhere.
Jim

mikeschmidt

Tom:

That sucks - it truly does. So much money down the drain is disturbing - and I have heard lots of stories about stuff that Spence has looked at and has had differing opinions, depending on whether it was a collector or an auction house submitting.

All this being said - I think the PSA/DNA and others sort of subscribe to the "medical school acceptance model". They would rather turn away 99 could-have-been-good doctors than admit 1 would-definitely-be-bad-doctor. As many of us have submitted undersized or potentially trimmed cards before - PSA would rather reject them with less than 100% certainty than encapsulate them when a question lingers.

I would be interested to hear how/when, etc. you got these cards signed. I've met many a player at Spring Training in days of yore where they were rushed and their signatures did not look exactly like they otherwise did. Also - what writing implement was used? Sounds like you have an awful experience with PSA/DNA - which just means I'll keep my auto. cards as is for a while longer (or consign them to a major auction house....)

qualitycards

Twice I met Rickey Henderson and had items signed. Once when he was a Yankee and I had access on the field he signed a SI Cover, and another time at a card show soon after ( both about 20 years ago ), where he signed a photo. Both sigs were totally different and no one believed that both were signed by him. One was bold, one was weak, one was somewhat legible, the other looked more like a wavy scribbled line, even the R & the H looked different.
With that said, all Jimmy Spence can do is give his assesment based on his information, if something looks a tad questionable, it won't get certified & slabbed, it doesn't mean its a fake, its just not consistent w/ the info he has gathered. And if I'm a buyer of already slabbed & certified PSA/DNA signed items, I would be content knowing that Jimmy is too tough, then not tough enough.
TOM - Thats small consolation, I know. But its the only way they can operate...jay

goodriddance189

jay, i can do you one better. i had Ricky Williams tell me a few years back that an auto i had of his was fake. funny thing is, i personally had him sign it when he was a junior in college.

qualitycards

GR - Now thats funny!
And that just proves the point! If a player doesn't even recognize his own sig, how can anyone else determine the autograph market w/ 100% certainty?
Even with that statement, there is no one on the planet that knows the autograph game better then Jimmy Spence. I've dealt w/ him for years and he knows his stuff. He no longer sells autographed items because of his work w/ PSA/DNA and thats a real blow to the autograph market as a great seller no longer exists but the ton of forgers are still out there...jay

aconte

<< <i>Question... if you received each of these signatures in person yourself, why pay to have them authenticated? You KNOW they are authentic. >>



I agree.

I also think much of the authentication process for autos is a crapshoot. I wonder how much
stuff gets through that should not be graded. I've always felt with all the fraud in the hobby
there are a lot of risks. And I actually find the whole autograph thing to be cheesy and tacky.
With that said I got a good handful of red man's autographed. All were either done personally
or by a friend. Still crazy stuff...

aconte

Golfcollector

I am an insurance underwriter and sign my name about 100 times a day......I can tell you my signature does not look the same even by the end of the day. These guys that sign for 1/2 hour after a game, no way. That is why I believe any "authenticating" of autogrpahs is a very inexact science and I will personally never send anything to PSA/DNA. In person is the only way to go for me.
Dave

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>

<< <i>Question... if you received each of these signatures in person yourself, why pay to have them authenticated? You KNOW they are authentic. >>

>>



Con & aconte,


As I said before, they look very good the way I have them displayed in my bar. Everything is in the same holder that way.

The same question can be asked for non-autographed cards. It's all needless.

Here's another interesting wrinkle. I just called PSA/DNA to rag on them and they said they only tagged 7 cards as "quaestionable". That means PSA didn't autheniticate the other two cards which were both 1993 Fleer Ultra cards. What the heck could be wrong with them?

Anyway, both parties are looking into there side of this story. We'll see.


schmitty,

All signatures were with sharpies. Most were signed at hotels when they were in town. The Flyers I got at local card shows. The baseball at games.

And I agree....PSA/DNA doesn't know what I know.

My issue is I do know there origin so I now question there ability. Especially on guys like Gretzky who they've seen many times in many variations.

roastedcat

Hey Tom-

I know your pain!

I've been a strong submitter to PSA/DNA for awhile now. Last year I've spent a ton of money just on PSA/DNA authentication alone, and it's very upsetting to me that when you trust a company for along time, they turn around and stab you where it really hurts, in the pocket book. I've had autographs that I have witnessed in person where they signed them get rejected by PSA/DNA which is very upsetting, not only that have delayed no guarntee turn around times. I'm still waiting for PSA/DNA submissions to be returned back to me from April 13th, I had 3 PSA/DNA vouchers to use on a 20 day turn around guarntee. No cards yet. I've spoken to PSA customer Reps Heather last Friday about my cards, and she said she'll look into it and get back to me on that. She said she'll call, I told her I have an answering machine, and she said she'll leave a message. I still haven't heard from her or anyone yet. When I call them asking about my cards they always tell me it's in the last stages and will be returned shortly.

I've stop submitting to PSA/DNA and PSA as of March 31st. I used to submit 20+ cards every signle month. This company's a joke, I've went to PSA to speak to Joe Orlando, but they said I need an appointment just to talk to him. I tried calling Joe Orlando, all I get is his answering machine, and when I leave a message, he doesn't call back. I get a call from his personal secetary Alisha to try and sort things out, but all they can say is, I'll look into it we'll get back to you.

PSA should stop concentrating on these no brainer specials, and start taking better care of their clients. It's these specials that are killing everyone on "NO" guarntee turnaround times. I don't mean to be harsh Joe, I know you read these posts. I've been a strong submitter to PSA ever since you've first started doing shows at "Frank & son's" and business going so well, that you pulled out of there and now doing shows all across the the state. PSA really needs to make a change and deal with their clients as if we were part of your family. I think your getting too caught up on writing and being in your own your SMR magazine and new ideas on how to grade Baseballs, ticket stubs, and giant Oversized Baseball cards, and your coin collecting market. That your sacrificing your clients to get a new product out. You should realize that it's your clients that make your product a success. And when you take great care of your client, your client stays with you until all other grading companies go out of business.

This year 2004, has really been the worst year for me. Lost submissions I dropped off, delayed submissions with no guarntee turn around times, extra charges shown on creditcards for cards I picked up by appointment, cards being mislabeled in wrong holders- sent back and still long delays to get them back, PSA/DNA rip off's- James Spencer being on vacation and recieving cards back longer than expected no turn around time guarntee 2 1/2 months, cards requesting "holder only" not being holdered even after they were PSA/DNA certified no refund given, Vouchers that take forever to redeem...my list goes on and on. Every year submissions were ok, but this year 2004 your service really stinks! Unless steps aren't taken to improve Customer support, Customer care, I'm just going to let my PSA renewal expire, and Do business else where.


Enough said!
Jery

joker73

I think this is part of the reason that PSA/DNA card prices haven't really taken off yet relative to certified autograph issues put out by Topps, Donruss, etc. in "modern" releases. There's just too much subjectivity, really just one man's opinion. However, if you have a Topps certified Ricky Williams auto (that he himself might think is a fake), meaning it was signed in the presence of a Topps rep and has a serial-numbered hologram verifying it's authenticity, you know it's good as gold - and can easily prove that to a potential buyer, without the need to a 3rd party to verify anything.

I realize that with older or deceased players PSA/DNA may be the only option, but with current players/legends, odds are there is an already-certified auto card out there ... you just might have to pay more for it.

CON40

The same question can be asked for non-autographed cards. It's all needless.

Thanks for clarifying that you are interested in the aesthetic qualities of having them slabbed. I like symmetry in my cards as well.

However, I beg to differ with you on your statement above. Grading cards has many needed attributes for a serious collector. Grading can determine if a card is doctored, what objective condition it is in (if they do their job right!), it adds value, makes it easily insurable, and easy to liquidate (especially online). By contrast, authenticating cards you personally witnessed being autgraphed seems redundant. If you do not plan to sell (I assume based on your desire to display), then all the authentication you need is in your memory of meeting the athlete. If you were authenticating these to sell, then many points I made above would apply.

Mind you, I am not trying to offend you, just trying to understand your decision to send them in in the first place. I know if Mr. Spence rejected one of my Ryan autos I got from signed personally, my memory of a great experience with him would become stained by a bad decision from an overzealous "expert".

I do feel bad for you that he stuck the hot poker up your backside. I hope they rectify it in your favor.

BugOnTheRug

<< <i>Mind you, I am not trying to offend you, just trying to understand your decision to send them in in the first place. >>


Con,
You need to reread his post:


<< <i>I thought they would look nice displayed in my bar so I decided to get them holdered. >>


I can understand why he wanted them holdered; it's his amazement at what was rejected that caught him off-guard, and rightly so...

BOTR

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>The same question can be asked for non-autographed cards. It's all needless.

I beg to differ with you on your statement above. Grading cards has many needed attributes for a serious collector. Grading can determine if a card is doctored, what objective condition it is in (if they do their job right!), it adds value, makes it easily insurable, and easy to liquidate (especially online). By contrast, authenticating cards you personally witnessed being autgraphed seems redundant. If you do not plan to sell (I assume based on your desire to display), then all the authentication you need is in your memory of meeting the athlete. If you were authenticating these to sell, then many points I made above would apply. >>




I agree with this whole heartedly for vintage cards. But remember, the cards here I consider to be "a dime a few hundred dozen". My statement should have been qualified to fit that category.

For the record, I'm not trying to take shots at PSA/DNA. This has to be an issue they see everyday in their line of business. I'm just frustrated with the fact that I'm starting to see what I consider to be greed. They'll take your $20 per card and never communicate with you.

Nobody can be an expert at every player. When they admit they aren't they should return your $20 and the card for that player. If somebody here can tell me that happens regularly than Ithat would certainly change my viewpoint on autograph certification.

Also, I did hear from PSA. There was a mistake. The Coffey and Housley card should have been slabbed. I need to send them back in. I'm now waiting for Spence to return my call on the others but I don't expect a change. I paid for an opinion and I got one. I now know the opinion isn't worth much to me. It's the fact that main stream player like Gretzky and Yzerman are missed that gets me.

Griffins

This and a lot of other recent issues should make for a very lively registry luncheon next month.

murcerfan

Tipem

no lunch for you


And Yes, They are having Soup !!

Vic

wlf3

been there, done that.... I have submitted 8 items this year, 6 of which i got in person, myself (2 Mcgwire, GWBush, Jimmy Carter, Bill Gates and Donald Trump) the other 2 were Dwight Eisenhower (it had a typed signed letter from Ike referencing the baseball in question) and Donald Rumsfeld (too with a letter from him on Defense Dept letterhead). Guess how amny passed?

ONE - Donald Trump no less.... Rumsfeld and Gates were "inconclusive" and the others (all in person) failed.

... and that is why I don't submit anything to PSADNA. PSA is questionable at times, but we all love them, but I don't think it's "right" for DNA to "attempt" to authenticate something that they can't. I think they've taken on too much and/or need some experts beyond the major sports stars.... and i don't mean have someone come in and take a quick glance at something once a week.

last year, i submitted 2 items, a McGwire baseball (passed) and a Mcgwire bat (failed)... both signed at the same time... but one passed ne didn't. go figure.

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>..... but we all love them, but I don't think it's "right" for DNA to "attempt" to authenticate something that they can't. >>



I couldn't agree more. Sometimes they just need to return your money and say we don't know this item well enough.

Griffins

Here's an interesting development...
PSA/DNA thread

schr1st

Interesting, especially since James Spence is a member of that organization.

GoSoxBoSox

I guess I should immediately sell the 15 they graded as authentic before the world knows!!!

Thanks Anthony.

schr1st

I'm still willing to buy PSA/DNA cards. While I'm not psyched that they are rejecting in-person signed items, I still feel comfortable with the items they certify. I just hope that my trust isn't misplaced.

Putty

Does anyone know if one of the other Grading companies will grade autographed cards? For example would GAI grade the card yet not the auto? Or do they grade both? Sorry if this has been answered before...

Hubcap

I think it is time to stand up for Mr. Spence and Steve Grad et al.

I have never had an autograph that I personally obtained rejected by PSA/DNA. The only autograph that was rejected was in Ft. Washington for a friend who bought a Mantle signed bat (that looked good to me at first glance) from an unknown company in Florida on EBAY at a ridiculously low price.

Having said that, I think there is a lot of misconception of what goes into authenticating an autograph. Most autographs are authenticated under magnification, much the same way a card is graded. So while some members have mentioned that even their autograph may very, the magnification details pen pressure, uneven strokes, start and stop points of the pen/Sharpie, etc that are not visible to the naked eye. There is so much more that goes into authentication that just how an autograph looks.

I have also found Mr. Spense and Mr. Grad to be very courteous and professional either on the phone or in person at a major show. I have never seen them not take a moment to explain in detail why an autograph has failed to a customer. The same is true of Mr. Orlando (with whom I have had some beefs), especially at major shows when he has a moment.

I remember when I first had vintage cards graded back in 1995-6. I was very disappointed and since I thought I knew more than some guy in a back room. I have been collecting vintage cards since I was 7 years old. And so, I "bad mouthed" the grading industry until I educated myself with the help of some PSA dealers. I think that some of the recent criticism of PSA/DNA has similarly come from collectors/dealers who have purchased the autographed items on the open collectibles market and had them rejected by PSA/DNA. To them I say, "know your source".

With respect to Mr. Papa, I have no doubt that he obtained these signed cards in person. While it is disheartening to not get your money back on a rejected item, I have always been a believer that if the authenticity is in question (unable to authenticate or reject), then the submittal payment should be refunded or a credit issued. When it is conclusive that the authenticity is not warranted (forgfery, alteration like tracing over, etc.), then the payment should not be refunded.

In the past, I have been a vocal critic at times of PSA on these Boards. Taking the advise of other Board memebers, I have not criticized PSA publically, and have taken my gripes privately to Mr. Orlando and have been satisfied with his advice and remedies. I guess I am saying the same thing here. People do make mistakes and remedy your problem through the proper channels and work to make PSA a better organization for all collectors.

AZ

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>With respect to Mr. Papa, I have no doubt that he obtained these signed cards in person. While it is disheartening to not get your money back on a rejected item, I have always been a believer that if the authenticity is in question (unable to authenticate or reject), then the submittal payment should be refunded or a credit issued. When it is conclusive that the authenticity is not warranted (forgfery, alteration like tracing over, etc.), then the payment should not be refunded.

In the past, I have been a vocal critic at times of PSA on these Boards. Taking the advise of other Board memebers, I have not criticized PSA publically, and have taken my gripes privately to Mr. Orlando and have been satisfied with his advice and remedies. I guess I am saying the same thing here. People do make mistakes and remedy your problem through the proper channels and work to make PSA a better organization for all collectors.

AZ >>



Well said and I agree. In fact, the situation is indeed being worked through the proper channels.

The reason for the posting of the issue is because (1) I needed to vent my frustration, and (2) there are certainly others that either have seen or will see this issue. This was a good opportunity for us to share to view points surrounding autograph authenication.

That said, I asked for an opinion and I got it. That's my issue to deal with. The bigger issue to me is what you touched on above "if the authenticity is in question (unable to authenticate or reject), then the submittal payment should be refunded or a credit issued".

Has that ever happened that you know of? Certainly nobody can be an expert on everyone's autograph.

My best friend played minor league baseball for a few years in the Yankee organization and I have a bunch of his autographed cards which are licensed by MLB. I was thinking of sending one through the process to see what PSA/DNA says. If they authenication it or say it's a forgery then I would have to say they're frauds. If the send my money back saying "we have no basis for an opinion" I would feel a little better.

Any thoughts on this?

Hubcap

Thanks Tom for the courteous comment.

If you read the PSA/DNA authentification sheet, it says "In our opinion....". That is the primary emphasis here in every review. It is an opinion, whether it is a graded card or autograph.

With respect to how do they know every person's autograph, obviously that is not possible. However, they rely on an extensive network of autograph "experts' who have amassed documentation on their area of expertise. For example, there is a game used uniform "expert" who used to go to his team's home game and sit near the bullpen. When the relief pitchers came out to the bullpen, he took extensive notes on the location of tags, flags, stitching etc., and even went so far to request the players to lend him a jersey so he could build his documentation. He had notebooks of documentation. There are people in the autograph hobby/business who have similar documentation that other "experts" rely upon for their opinion.

Regarding the minor league autographs, maybe they can and maybe they can't. I guess my 2 cents in this matter is if you can't, then say so and refund the money with a "No Opinion". If you can, then charge the fee either yeah or nay.

Just a side note...just because an autographed card that comes out of a pack is notated "authentic", that doesn't mean the autograph is real. Years ago, ScoreBoard had some bad autographs, either because the player didn't get the signed cards back in time for fulfillment, or the player had some friend sign them.

The best advise is to know your source. Persoanlly, I do not buy any autographs from walk ins at a show. I do private signings or have my items signed in the back room thru the promoter at shows I attend.

AZ

scottsusor

At $20 a throw, maybe they should maintain a list of phone and fax numbers for every player, former player, and descendants of deceased players -- then call each one, fax an image of the autographed item in question, and ask "Is this a real signature?" Is that too much to ask for $20?

Scott

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>Just a side note...just because an autographed card that comes out of a pack is notated "authentic", that doesn't mean the autograph is real. >>




Sure it does

.....at least it does to the millions of potential eBay buyers and card show trolls. It's a truly troublesome part of the hobby that I see no right answer for. That's why I collect cards instead of autographs. It's a trust thing.

Most of the autographs I own are purely display pieces that I had signed on my own. The value is sentimental and they're nice conversation pieces. While kicking back a few beers with friends it's sometimes fun to talk about when and how you got this or that signed. It would've been nice to have all of these cards displayed together in there holders. The fact is, I'll take the rejected cards and throw them in a box because they won't look right when the rest of my displayed cards are holdered.

schr1st

There is an interesting article in this past month's hockey Beckett, stating that only Topps sends a representative to witness all of their certified autograph signings at this point. If it were to be discovered that even one or two players had ghost signed cards in one serier or another, I'd imagine that it would severly impact the certified autographed card market. At least with PSA/DNA you know that what you are buying is an experts opinion as to authenticity, along with a financial guarantee from PSA/DNA. What will Upper Deck do for you should the hobby find out that Mark Prior or Albert Pujols had all of their cards signed by their agent's receptionist?

BTW, the Koufax rookie I mentioned earlier in this thread was delivered today (seller lives in-state), and this is one sweet card! I'm glad to have added it to my collection (and set registry)!

koby

Then who can we trust with autographs?

I thought Spence and Gutierrez were #1 and #2.

Hubcap

Good point Sean. In fact, if you notice most of the card company "signed" cards today, they are not actually signed on the card surface. The companies send sheets of stickers to the players or their agents for signature. Then the returned signed labels are stuck on the cards by a rep of the card company. Want to bet that some of the labels aren't signed by the agent or his/her secretary?????

GoSoxBoSox

<< <i>Good point Sean. In fact, if you notice most of the card company "signed" cards today, they are not actually signed on the card surface. The companies send sheets of stickers to the players or their agents for signature. Then the returned signed labels are stuck on the cards by a rep of the card company. Want to bet that some of the labels aren't signed by the agent or his/her secretary????? >>




i'm gonna hurl

schr1st

Yup, and the card companies do a poor job in labling the cards as well (How many backwards, upside down or wrong player cards have you seen on eBay? I know I've seen my fair share). I've never been a big fan of the "band-aid" or "paper-slip" autographed card, and probably have less than 5 in my collection. The Upper Deck Legendary Cuts set is a bit differrent, since they are doing the best they can with cut signatures to get "autographed" cards out into the hobby. I think that the possibility for "ghost-signed" certified autographed cards is a bigger "boogeyman" for the hobby than rejected or even potentially bad psa/dna autographed cards.



<< <i>Good point Sean. In fact, if you notice most of the card company "signed" cards today, they are not actually signed on the card surface. The companies send sheets of stickers to the players or their agents for signature. Then the returned signed labels are stuck on the cards by a rep of the card company. Want to bet that some of the labels aren't signed by the agent or his/her secretary????? >>