" As used in this chapter, unfair competition shall mean and include any unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising and any act prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17500) of Part 3 of Division 7 of the Business and Professions Code."
FRATLAW: Yes, this is the door that will open the litigation floodgates, at least in California and for anybody doing business here, along the lines of the case law we are discussing in this thread. This statute is intentionally vague as to what is an "unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice" and what is an "unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertis[ment]", and the case law has continuously left it vague so that it can be stretched to cover all kinds of situations, limited only by the imagination of our brethren at the bar.
How hard is it to imagine that a situation with rampant overgrading, bad numismatic advice and taking advantage of people with too much money and too little brains, could be sued upon under Bus. & Prof. Code Sec. 17200?
I know a couple of 17200 firms, actually I use to work at one. I'm sure it won't be long before this idea comes around. The last firm I worked at sued 7-11 and a host of various other stores for charging tax on bags of ice cubes under a private Attorney General statute and settled for some nice $$$.
California is really plaintiff friendly in regards to these types of actions.
Hey let's get together for lunch in Brentwood one day and chat. I'm sure there's at least a half a dozen 17200s pertaining to the numismatics that we could file tomorrow!!!
fratlaw: tell me when you are next in W. LA (Century City, actually) and I'll buy the lunch. Also, I may run into you at the Anaheim show on Sunday because I too will be there between 10 and 11. Post that pic of you and your wife again, so I'm sure to recognize you.
(for the rest of you, watch out! two lawyers agreeing on anything is a sure sign of trouble! even if coins are involved)
I can tell you this, that with such cases coming to light it is going to bring other TGP's into the picture and all are guilty of something or other and it will bring regulation into the Hobby....Do you find undergrading equally as wrong as overgrading....each one benifits someone and someone gets burned either way...
I was just checking out this old thread; do the points remain valid regarding the law? Many kudos to PCGS is making retrieval of issues like this relatively easy!
I was just checking out this old thread; do the points remain valid regarding the law? Many kudos to PCGS is making retrieval of issues like this relatively easy!
This isn't "another court case on grading" as the topic suggests.... as there's nothing fresh here.
Rather than jumping on a 12 yr old thread, it might be better to start a new one....and link the old one. Then people can decide if they want to wade back 12 years or just pass on by. It would help if you summarized the issues from that 2004 thread including your own thoughts on it....then invite fresh comments. Come up with a new slant if there is one.
Comments
§ 17200. Definition
" As used in this chapter, unfair competition shall mean and include any unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice and unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertising and any act prohibited by Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17500) of Part 3 of Division 7 of the Business and Professions Code."
FRATLAW: Yes, this is the door that will open the litigation floodgates, at least in California and for anybody doing business here, along the lines of the case law we are discussing in this thread. This statute is intentionally vague as to what is an "unlawful, unfair or fraudulent business act or practice" and what is an "unfair, deceptive, untrue or misleading advertis[ment]", and the case law has continuously left it vague so that it can be stretched to cover all kinds of situations, limited only by the imagination of our brethren at the bar.
How hard is it to imagine that a situation with rampant overgrading, bad numismatic advice and taking advantage of people with too much money and too little brains, could be sued upon under Bus. & Prof. Code Sec. 17200?
Not hard at all.
I know a couple of 17200 firms, actually I use to work at one. I'm sure it won't be long before this idea comes around. The last firm I worked at sued 7-11 and a host of various other stores for charging tax on bags of ice cubes under a private Attorney General statute and settled for some nice $$$.
California is really plaintiff friendly in regards to these types of actions.
Hey let's get together for lunch in Brentwood one day and chat. I'm sure there's at least a half a dozen 17200s pertaining to the numismatics that we could file tomorrow!!!
Michael
(for the rest of you, watch out! two lawyers agreeing on anything is a sure sign of trouble! even if coins are involved)
I was just checking out this old thread; do the points remain valid regarding the law? Many kudos to PCGS is making retrieval of issues like this relatively easy!
This isn't "another court case on grading" as the topic suggests.... as there's nothing fresh here.
Rather than jumping on a 12 yr old thread, it might be better to start a new one....and link the old one. Then people can decide if they want to wade back 12 years or just pass on by. It would help if you summarized the issues from that 2004 thread including your own thoughts on it....then invite fresh comments. Come up with a new slant if there is one.