When a buyer claims card never arrived

jrdolan

How do you handle it when an eBay buyer says the card never arrived? It's not some cheap card, either. If it was, I'd just send him another one. It's a graded 1956 Willie Mays for which he paid $400 on May 24. I mailed it May 25. He did not opt for insurance. My listing clearly states that buyers decline insurance at their own risk. Now it's two weeks later and he says where's the card?

Either he is trying to scam me or he is honest and got hosed by the Postal Service. I have no way to determine which. If I stand by the disclaimer in my listing, I get a neg. Maybe he will file a fraud report with PayPal to get the charge reversed. If I give a refund, it will be me getting screwed with my pants on. A sh*tty choice either way.

A lesson on why to use delivery confirmation on expensive cards. But I didn't on that one. What do you guys do when this happens?

goodriddance189

no insurance= caveat emptor. unfortunately, it's a no win situation for sellers. i'll usually take the financial hit and get insurance on expensive items, even if the buyer didn't request it.

Griffins

I always include insurance in the shipping costs- its my responsibility as a seller to get the item to the buyer, so I believe it covers me from my loss if it doesn't get there. I believe you have some liability as the seller with paypal as well. Lets hope it turns up.

mikeschmidt

I think it is best to require insurance for purchases over a certain amount (I think $75 or $100- is a good threshold). If they are willing to spend that much on a card - they should at least be willing to spend $2- or so to insure the card (even if it is under-insured, at their own hazard...)

Aknot

errr for about 15 cents "you" could have gotten Delivery Confirmation....

sjeanblanc

JrDolan,

If he payed via Paypal and you didn't get Delivery Confirmation, you are screwed. PayPal will take his side because you can't prove it was delivered. Proving it was shipped doesn't do you any good with PayPal now, they need trackable confirmation of delivery.

Something to think about for future auctions, if you would ship outside US, you can't get delivery confirmation on anything outside of the states. So for high dollar cards, I would make sure to stipulate US shipping only.

If you take Paypal, pony up for the Delivery Confirmation, because it will save you a world of sh!t when things like this happen.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
------------------------------------------------------
Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

MrMoo

I just don't do business on ebay anymore.

nearmint

Delivery confirmation is either 45 cents or 55 cents, depending on what other services you get. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee that the package made it into your customer's hands. The mail carrier could leave it at someone else's house, or someone could steal it out of your customer's mailbox. Awhile back, one of my regular customers didn't receive a package from me, though the PO records said it was delivered in his town. I believed him and refunded his money, and I was fortunate that my insurance (I have my own) reimbursed me, too. Since then I've used signature confirmation instead of delivery confirmation for most valuable packages.

Mandatory insurance is probably a good idea for an ebay seller, at least for expensive cards. I don't require it in my auctions, but when I read stories like the one above, I think I should start.

Mike

jrdolan

This seems like it would be the easiest scam in the world to run on eBay. Buy an expensive card with PayPal, then if delivery was not confirmed, claim it didn't arrive. Get your money back and sell the card. Nice.

It's just as hard on an honest buyer, because the seller thinks he's trying to rip him off. Well, maybe not just as hard because they get their money back.

OK, so I do delivery confirmation on everything from now on. The scammer sees it's confirmed when it arrives, shrugs, oh well, no double profit on this one, and snaps the holder so he can claim damage and get his investment back.

Sigh.

calleocho

i thought paypal had a limit on how many chargebacks a person could do in one year period?

is that right?

BugOnTheRug

jrdolan,

I find it incredible that a buyer would not opt for insurance on a $400+ card. What's an extra $5.20 on a $400 card ??????
Red flags all over the place on this one.............



<< <i>I always include insurance in the shipping costs- its my responsibility as a seller to get the item to the buyer, so I believe it covers me from my loss if it doesn't get there >>


Absolutely! Anything over $100 I include the insurance with the shipping charges...........that way, no if-and-but about delivery of the package.

I often wondered about sig confirmation as opposed to delivery; from what I'm reading here, I will use sig conf. on these $100+ packages.

BOTR

hojodojonono

PayPal limits the number of claims they will pay if the seller stiffs you but you are allowed to question any number of purchases. I always get a big kick out of the sellers who say in their auctions with big bold all-cap letters, "NOT RESPONSIBLE,blah,blah,blah" and they take PayPal. I just smile and thank them for the free insurance because if it don't show up PayPal will show him just how responsible he is. You gotta play by the PayPal rules and you won't get in trouble.

2323

When somebody wins a card from me on ebay, thay don't even get a choice of declining insurance, $4.00 includes shipping with insurance. If they don't like it they don't have to bid. Never had a problem!

jrdolan

Good points, all, and a valuable lesson. Better be valuable, for $400.

Flashback to 1988, when selling cards was a simple matter:
"How much you want for that 56 Mays?"
"Oh, $400. It's a beauty."
"Yeah it is, though that lower right corner could be better. How 'bout $300 and this stack of 86 Fleer Update Barry Bonds? I got 25 of them."
"Bonds? He'll never amount to much. How about those six Greg Jefferies Rookie Prospects instead?"
"You drive a hard bargain. Deal."

milbroco

I agree with 2323..............I never give the insurance option. My shipping fees always include insurance no matter what the value of the item. I have even insured a $2.00 item before.

As to your situation, I would not give a refund. I would take the neg and take my chances with them filing a claim.

Best of luck.

mexisar

jrdolan

put the card in the registry, if someone tries to add it later , you will know who has it

pandrews

<< <i>jrdolan

put the card in the registry, if someone tries to add it later , you will know who has it >>



sneaky! good idea..

jrdolan

At the risk of losing any moral support here, it's an SGC 88. If this is a con, I'm sure it will be cracked and submitted raw to PSA.

PayPal will tell him that he has not given enough time for delivery before doing a chargeback. I wonder if that will be a black mark on MY record with PayPal. I'm thinking of going to "Check or MO only" anyway, now that I am aware of how the system can be turned against the seller.

ctsoxfan

I am going through the same thing now with a well known Ebay seller. The card did not arrive after 30 days, and a few emails wondering where it was (I paid with PayPal), so I asked for a refund. He stalled a bit, so to protect myself, I filed a PayPal claim (no delivery confirmation, but item was insured). I am waiting now for the 10 days PayPal makes you wait for a seller response. However, I think the seller was mad that I filed the claim...but, no harm was meant by me. I just want my card!

1420sports

Give it another day ... it was en route over a holiday, and it is the Postal Service we are talking about. I have seen stranger things with them, but all turns out good. Not alot of things get lost, so I would be hesitant in offering a refund especially when insurance was refused.

On a separate note, I will not buy cards where insurance is NOT offered.

Snowball

Wait for a few days. Package may be misdirected.

For paypal, you need del. confirmation (0.55) for under $250 and signature confirmation (1.80) for $250 and above. Paypal will not side on you if you don't have online tracking even if the item is insured.


Did you check the buyers feedback?


A buyer purchased raw expensive cards (about $500+) from me awhile back and never insured the item. After 25 days, buyer emailed me and asked for the cards. Thank goodness I didn't throw the sig. confimation receipt. I sent him the link to usps that he got them. Now I keep the confirmations and receipts for about 2 months.

packCollector

well , I am in the same situation on the other end. I bought a card for $40 and didn't take insurance because it's a waste on cheap items. card hasn't arrived in 3 weeks. still waiting to hear from the seller? what proof should I require that he sent it. My thought is unless he shows me a dc or a postal slip saying he paid shipping to my zip code then I will file a complaint. The sellers need to show proof that the item is shipped also if there is no insurance.

in the case , I would never send a $400 card uninsured. if the buyer doesn't pay I usually pay out of my pocket or insure enough to get it signed for

MorrellMan

Good question. I've been considering clearly stating that I add insurance automatically (with cost disclosure, of course) and giving the buyer the option of refusing insurance, with the caveat that the buyer refuses insurance at his own risk. That way, if an item gets lost, the buyer has only himself to blame....just my tusense on the subject.

autobilia

<< <i>How do you handle it when an eBay buyer says the card never arrived? It's not some cheap card, either. If it was, I'd just send him another one. It's a graded 1956 Willie Mays for which he paid $400 on May 24. I mailed it May 25. He did not opt for insurance. My listing clearly states that buyers decline insurance at their own risk. Now it's two weeks later and he says where's the card?

Either he is trying to scam me or he is honest and got hosed by the Postal Service. I have no way to determine which. If I stand by the disclaimer in my listing, I get a neg. Maybe he will file a fraud report with PayPal to get the charge reversed. If I give a refund, it will be me getting screwed with my pants on. A sh*tty choice either way.

A lesson on why to use delivery confirmation on expensive cards. But I didn't on that one. What do you guys do when this happens? >>



I had that to happen once. I contacted Ebay and they told me that if insurance is offered and they don't opt to use it, as long as you can prove you sent out, the seller is not responsible for lost mail. That's why when I mail items out, I go to the counter and ask for a receipt.

SDavid

Paypal is fine as long as you cover yourself. If you only use checks/money orders, you'll find payments to be much slower. NPB's will also be more frequent.

For expensive sales, I've always used return receipt with restricted delivery in addition to tracking and insurance. It forces the buyer to sign for the item himself (sig. conf. doesn't do that), and I get their signature mailed back to me. Pretty cool.

Then, if someone is dumb enough to do a chargeback through their credit card company, I'll at least have ample proof of delivery to show the US Postal Inspectors (my favorite agency) and paypal. Both can be very tough to deal with if you've fraudulently committed a chargeback through a credit card. I think most scammers are smart enough not to do that under those circumstances, though.

Also, I've set my paypal account up to only accept payments from confirmed addresses.

I used to sell a lot of cheap stuff on ebay and it was funny - all the packages that were "lost" were cards purchased through paypal where I didn't feel tracking was worthwhile. There were probably about 10-15 of them. I probably sent 300-400 packages that were paid for by checks and nothing was ever "lost." Strange coincidence, eh? But now that I at least use tracking on all purchases, I don't have that problem.

nojo

It would be interesting to see if there has been any increase in overall delivery confirmation sales for the PO since paypal implemented it's policy.

One almost wonders if Paypal/eBay gets kickbacks from the USPS

magellan

I was checking out the eBay/Paypal online postage deal today. Postage for first class costs just what the postage is , delivery confirmation is 13 cents (55 at Po I believe) and Paypal gets 20 cents. Express Mail (and Priority?) has no PayPal fee. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, I didn't use it on my package because wasn't sure what size labels you had to have and I only have the small averys but I'll be using it in the future.

Dave