What's the best source for quality 70s clad?

nwcs

Mint sets, rolls, or other? This is an area I'm starting to move into for cherry picking and high grades and would like to learn from others' experiences.

Thanks,

Neil

nwcs

Just to add, I mean 1970s, not MS-70 or PR-70.

cladking

It's extremely difficult to find any clad from the '70's in rolls except for some half
dollars and dollars. There were very few of these saved in rolls because there was
very little interest and because quality was often very poor. Even when the rolls were
current in the '70's you could look at large numbers of rolls and find nothing worth sav-
ing. The quality did vary from year to year not only as it pertained to the average grade
but also in the high grades. '76-D quarters, for instance, were readily available in MS-65
or MS-66 but were elusive in the highest grades (These are still widely availabe in rolls).

There are some original rolls of '70's era dimes and quarters and these make an excellent
source for varieties, but with few exceptions they are not a good source for any gems.

This really just leaves mint sets, but there are some dates which are tough in the sets.
MS-65 '71-P's are easy enough in the set, but high grades of these are very elusive. The
'75 dime is extremely tough even in nice solid MS-64 though there are some in mint sets
and surprisingly this is one of the rolls which can be found and gems are seen from this
source.

One problem though is that there were exceedingly few sources for the rolls which did get
saved. Most available original rolls come from fewer than a dozen sources! By chance there
are some varieties and some gems which don't appear in any of these rolls. Few varieties
appear in mint sets. In many cases collectors will need to rely on circulated coins.

One caveat; If your primary interest is in nice clean coins then rolls become a much better
source for gem quality coinage. Much of the difficulty in finding good quality in rolls is that
these coins are typically poorly struck or struck from worn dies. Mint set coins are almost
always good strikes from good dies.

It should also be noted that most of the BU dime and quarter rolls one sees available on the
market are not actually original rolls, they are actually assembled from mint sets. The differ-
ence in quality is great enough to be able to tell the difference in "all" cases. Individually
the coins can not be told apart except for those which don't exist in mint sets.

DHeath

Neil,

Unless you're hunting varieties, I find the mint sets the best alternative unless you can find a collection or two to pick. Usually the mint sets are a burden to the dealer and they are more than happy to see them leave. Most of my local dealers will let me cherrypick, and generally will sell to me around bid, or at least between bid and ask. It's also possible to buy unopened 5 packs and boxes. I think the last box of 72 sets I bought were $3.75 per set. It just takes lots of time to find what you're looking for.

nwcs

I'm not so much hunting for varieties as I am for quality type. Although if there are some good sources of information as to what varieties to look for, please feel free to share them. I know of a few varieties of Ikes and washingtons but that's all. I'm even looking at Ikes with more respect these days.

I saw a box of 5 unopened mint sets on ebay (still in box as shipped from mint) but just don't know what to expect so I haven't committed myself. How do you deal with all the remnants of sets you picked from?

Sam, thanks for the great information! You should write a book on clad coinage. I'd buy it.

cladking

NWCS; Thank you. It's always been my intention to write a book but it'll will be such a big undertaking
that it will have to wait for now.

There currently aren't any books on clad quarters and the little information available is spread over sev-
eral references. There is a new book on clad dimes and is a great pioneering effort. Existing works on
the halfs and dollars are extremely good and probably very comprehensive.

Many mint set remnants have too little value to bother with and are best spent. If you can get enough
of the more valuable pieces to make full rolls then these can sell at very strong prices. Most buyers want
only the choice or near choice specimens and up to half the mint set coins will not suffice. I usually try
to cherry pick sets so as to minimize the quantity of remnants.

nwcs

That's the dilemma for me, though. I can get some of those unopened boxes but can't see if it's worth the premium. Argh! So I suppose I better learn how to grade moderns and cherry them from dealers who don't pay much attention to moderns. Are the grading standards similar between them and their silver counterparts?

cladking

My contention has long been that the mint sets were never really collected in an organized way by
more than a very few people. The individual coins, too, have been mostly ignored. There are no sig-
nificant supplies of the old mint set coins, no old time collections of clad, and very few BU rolls of the
dimes and quarters. This situation would have little meaning or importance if not for two significant
developments over the years. The bigger one is that there is and has been a small but growing de-
mand for the coins. This demand ramped up a great deal in 1998 with the advent of the states quar-
ters and has continued a significant growth. The other is that time has not stood still for these coins
or the sets in which they were issued. Large numbers of mint sets have been destroyed for the indiv-
idual coins in them. Mostly this means Ikes, and halfs and to a lesser extent cents and nickels. The mint
sets have been treated like a renewable resource and priced like a commodity. The demand has not
been sufficient to even absorb the trickle of sets coming from estates and those who tire of holding
them. This has often forced prices of these to very low levels despite being virtually the sole source of
many of the dimes and quarters, not to mention the fact that gems often weren't ever available in cir-
culation issues (and even this failed to drive demand for sets).

At some point there will be more demand than sets. At that time even a few of the MS-60's are going
to start looking pretty good.

haletj

<< <i>Are the grading standards similar between them and their silver counterparts? >>



No, they overgrade clad coins by like 2 points. I'm serious.

nwcs

Can you give an example?

haletj

I've bought about 20 pcgs ms66 clad quarters off ebay, trying to fill in holes in my raw gem set I'm trying to build. Half of those 20 I returned upon receiving them. Some had large nicks right on Washington's cheek! Out of the 10 or so I still have I only like 3. I have a 95-p in ms66 with a scratch on the shoulder, and the toughest two dates 94-p,94-d in ms65, and they are lousy, look like ms63's. I gave up on trying to buy pcgs ones. To get true gems you need to buy ms67's which have already gotten pricey. Everything cladking says about how tough gems are to find is correct. I don't have many secrets on how to find them yet, as I'm still working on figuring out how to do that too. I did buy a roll 71-p and 72-p quarters and found much better coins than the many 71 and 72 mint sets I looked through. I think from the late 80's on mint sets are the way to go though.

Edited to add... these pcgs quarters I bought were not from the "dump the low end grade coins on ebay" sellers but were from mnm coin, onlyroosies, a.w. coins, sellers who are known to sell "top notch" moderns.

nwcs

Which raises an interesting question. How does PCGS deal with planchet defects with clad when it comes to grade? I presume that with the strikes being what they are that more of the planchet texture/problems will appear and not be struck out.

keets

hey Neil

there are really only two ways to go, each with good and bad points attached and both having a strategy you can use.

Mint Sets

the good points----very accessible and plentiful. i find that i'm usually free to pull them out and look, but that can place you as an annoyance with some dealers at shows if you don't make a "courtesy" buy. with local dealers that you have a good relationship with, it can be a good source if they deal in that "commodity" to any degree. also, if you get stuff home and it isn't really up to standards, you can resell at a modest loss.

bad point----these have been cherried out to a large extent, though i still find an occasional gem. of course, i really only care for the nickels!!

Rolls

good point----i find a good approach here is to be hooked in with however many collectors/dealers you can. at clubs i belong to, i keep the word out and you'd be surprised how many people put rolls of Ike Dollars back. other stuff surfaces from time to time, especially with dealers. if i visit some regularly and buy, they'll hold rolls for me. i try to be specific of what dates/denominations i'm most interested in and always remind the guys that i only want BU's, no banged up put together rolls. my best scores have been some really nice 1971-P&D coins, a few gem 1972-P's and the ever abundant 1976-P Type 2's.

bad point----i find that i can't pick through the rolls to decide if i want them or not, at least not past verifying that they are OK. no glassing all the coins!! rolls aren't as liquid as the Mint Sets, either, so you might have trouble getting rid of them, taking a bigger loss.

good luck.

al h.

lordmarcovan

I second Neil's comment about Sam writing a book someday. The "cladking" title is apt.