When it comes to FBL on Frankies, just how much of the lines must be visible?

razorface1027

Any insight is appreciated. I'm just now grooving on my Frankies.

If a line is evident, yet flat, does that count as FBL? Can there be the slightest interruption from east to west or west to east on the bell lines?

razorface1027

ttt

razorface1027

ANYONE?...SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW?

XpipedreamR

The bell lines must be full.

darktone

Well I am not the Franklin expert but I will tell you what I know. PCGS only requires the lower set of lines to be complete. NGC requires all the lines to be complete. Me myself I require all lines to be no question complete and as someone else said in another thread you should not have to hold the coin at odd angles to see the lines or have to use a loupe. But for PCGS and NGC they allow for weakness around the bells crack and in my opinion they widely differ between coin to coin on the fine points of what exactly is full bell lines. The experts say each year and mint has a different standard for what is considered FBL's but I think this is just a cop out so that more high grade coins can be slabbed as FBL's. mike

XpipedreamR

Seriously, though, I think it's kind of a crapshoot. I know that they give a little leeway just to either side of the crack. Other than that, I've seen FBL's where you have to stand on your head, squint your eyes, and use a good deal of imagination to envision the bell lines. And I've also seen "WTF" non-FBL coins. I think they might be a little more generous with certain dates.

I'm no Frankie expert, though, just a fan.

razorface1027

The bell lines must be full.

Thanks Xpipe, but I pretty much understand they've got to be full. I guess my question you could say, should've been...What defines FBL? I've seen what is considered and has been graded FBL, yet, I see what appears to be slight interruptions between the lines. Now if there is a interruption BETWEEN the lines and it impinges the lines, such as I've seen with designated FBLs (I don't have a pic in front of me), would this barr it from being FB?

Boom

At one point I had decided to collect Franklins as hard as I do Washingtons and to answer your question, at the time there was some lee-way regarding this, even on PCGS coins. I thought they had

to clear/ /distinct and unbroken... but not so. I sold a raw set n a Dansco to a dealer at a coin show for $1200-that ought to tell you a little about how nice this set was. When I make up my mind that I am

done with something, that's it....History. I was satisfied at the time but afterwards realized that if he paid me that kind of money for a raw set, just how much would it have been worth certified?

Impulse = regret

razorface1027

Thanks Mike. I've got a set, wherein, only 6 of them I'd consider as FBL. They're the earliest dates too.

darktone

<< <i>They're the earliest dates too. >>

Unfortunately Tom the Early dates 48 and 49 usually have full bell lines. mike

razorface1027

Unfortunately Tom the Early dates 48 and 49 usually have full bell lines. mike

Boy 'o' boy...I just can't win here.

JrGMan2004

Also have to remember, like Full Steps on Jeffersons and Full Bands with Mercs and Roosys, a hit on the bell lines often drops it out of the FBL category...

marmac

While FBL is the subject. I have been under the impression that a tick or ding that runs across the bell lines will disqualify a coin from the designation since it interupts the bell lines. Am I correct in this?

here is a 51 -s rev that I think would get fbl if not for the the big ding in the bell lines.

darktone

marmac, A big hit like that is supposed to keep a coin from the FBL designation but I seen them graded FBL with big hits. I think your lower bell lines are too weak to get the desination though. mike

LucyBop

Marmac, that hit is to big and I don't see this one getting FBL, I have seen hits on the lines and the coin still goes FBL, but the dings/ticks/hits are very minor...

from what I have seen.....

marmac

I guess my confidence in this 51-s rev is due to comparing it to other coins already officially designated FBL. Which when I line them all up I see varying degrees of definition that aren't necessarily consistent with the fbl designation on the holder. It must be like someone said "dependent on each year/mint", Because this has better lines then my 1957pcgs65fbl (which is softly struck on the reverse but has real eye appealing toning).

I am stumped, but I think it has a lot to do with owning a few coins that SHOULDN"T have the FBL desig. on them.............

FC57Coins

The FBL designation is a designation that should denote "full strike". Different years and mint products have different strike characteristics, so what you tend to see is the grading services grading full bell lines in accordance with the "general strength" that these are found in. As Mike mentioned - 48 and 49 P and D offerings generally have full strong bell lines, so to get the designation, you need to have full strong bell lines. "S" mint products tended to have much weaker strike features, so the grading services may give some latitude on these and not look for bell lines that look like those of 48 or 49, but still are deemed full, because they and all the other strike characteristics are as "full as they get". The same happens with 1960's Franklins. The bell lines were not as strongly engraved in the updated master die of 1960, so the coins will seem like weaker bell line candidates, because that's as good as they come. Hope this explains some of your question.

Frank

marmac

Darktone,Lucy,Frank,


Thanks for sharing your knowledge with me. Here are a couple of pics with FBL desig. I would appreciate it if you could evaluate the bell lines for me-