Destroying Coins in the Pursuit of the Almighty $$ - Updated

tradedollarnut

I find it incredibly sad when a great coin with a great pedigree is messed with and then discarded anonomously when the results aren't satisfactory:

Before

After

a2labmom

What a damn shame. Such a beautiful coin destroyed like that.

Coppernicus

TDN - That CAN'T be the same coin, can it? What a pity. The "before" went for $43,000 in an NGC holder - apparently not enough for the new owner. I assume it's now raw (and pretty much ruined, at least compared to what it was). What do you think it will go for now?

Tell me that's not the same coin!!!!

Mike

mrpaseo

For the love of Money, what happend to that poor coin?

It trully is a sad day.

me


NOTE: This post left smiley free for clws benifit.

haletj

I can't comprehend why someone would even think of messing with that coin. I can't comprehend how it could have even been messed up so baldy.

mrpaseo

It looks like someone tried to dip it, possibly left in the dip to long or did not rinse it enough. A sad day for the Numismatic world.

sad me

FrattLaw

I guess dipping still ain't a form of doctoring?

This just kills me. While we don't have the coin in hand and we don't know what photoshop tricks were done to the pics, it looks like all the luster has just been striped away from that coin. I wonder how many times it was dipped to get off that beautiful toning it once had.

What a shame.

Michael

jacktheknife

Unbelievable! It is the same coin, for sure. I'll borrow from the Miller beer commercial, "That's a travesty, a sham, and a mockery. It's a traveshamockery!"

Seriously, that is an absolute shame.

mgoodm3

Ouch.

RYK

Oh my gosh, that is unbelievable! Is it possible that that coin could have been any more valuable or desirable than it was before being tampered with?

jom

WTF was the point of dipping this coin?



jom

cosmicdebris

100proof1957

OMG !
is that really the same coin ?
TEARS


Proof

tradedollarnut

It's the same coin for sure. It's the Norweb specimen and is the plate coin in Bowers' Complete Encyclopedia [most plates were from Norweb]. The strike thru at star #4 caught my eye and I started matching other similarities. The small spot inside the second 0 of 900 confirmed it for me.

I viewed this coin when it sold at ANR in the NGC holder. It was quite lovely and I thought a sure fire cross. I almost bid on the coin, but I already have two so I didn't. But I was most favorably impressed. Sadly, not anymore! Grrrr.

Pushkin

<< <i>well on the way to Gem. >>



On its way alright, maybe with another hundred years of toning.

tjkillian

It clearly is the same coin, just study both pictures. There has to be more to the story as it was extremely beautiful before. Now, very dull and lifeless.

Tom

ColonialCoinUnion

Whoever did this will end up losing $20K or so for their efforts, which I suspect will be more than offset by the few hundred successful attempts they've undoubtedly made dipping otherwise nice coins, cramming them into upgraded holders and selling them to people who are not knowledgeable enough to know the difference.

Happens all the time with colonials, and its a damn shame.

CoinAddict

Lets get a rope and track the person that did this down. Why would someone go and screw up such a beautiful coin. Obviously the person that did this was not in his/her right mind. It is such a shame that something like this would happen.

ms70

That is the same coin. If I saw the two pics before seeing this thread and did not immediately realize they were the same coin, I wouldn't
have picked the after coin anyway. What a shame. I hope the coin doc that did this takes a huge bath on it.

XpipedreamR

<< <i>Lets get a rope and track the person that did this down. Why would someone go and screw up such a beautiful coin. Obviously the person that did this was not in his/her right mind. It is such a shame that something like this would happen. >>







Yes, it's a shame. But the rope might be a little extreme

EVillageProwler

What a shame.

EVP

CoinAddict

I guess it is, Jeff. But people should still think what they are doing because they may be ruining the hobby for the future numismatists in such acts as this. That coin will probably never look as pretty as it once did and it is a crying shame that someone would do something like this all in seach of higher grade.

roadrunner

That coin has simply superb eye appeal and color before the bath.
What a shame. And from the Norweb sale to boot.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut

Uh, oh - somebody's been busy:

Before

After


I hope for his sake, tho not for us collectors, that usually he's more successful in his chosen craft.

ohbaby

How on earth can you improve on that original?!!

So who is it? I am certain many know who is the culprit.

jacktheknife

Yep, the rim ding won't hide. It's the same coin. I hope he/she takes a financial beating.

airplanenut

<< <i>Yep, the rim ding won't hide. It's the same coin. I hope he/she takes a financial beating. >>

A physical one might be deserved, too

Myqqy

OK- so fess up- who's attacking all of the trade dollars?? This is especially interesting to me, considering the current popularity of original toning. There must be a big price jump between a 64 and 65 with these trade dollars for someone to be messing up such pristine coins... BTW, I never knew that lady liberty had such big toes on these coins!!!

DAM

I've never understood the reasoning behind such stupidity. Collectors constantly talk about dipping and how it improves the look of their coins. Perhaps if your coin is a POS, without value, I could understand. For someone to RUIN two nice looking coins like these is just plain stupid.

Looking at the bright side, collectors who own those dates may have just gotten a price bump... thanks to the stupidity of someone who's interests are obviously financial only.

ElectricEye

A perfect example of an ignorant investor lacking a true collector's desire to preserve a historical piece

FrattLaw

<< <i>OK- so fess up- who's attacking all of the trade dollars?? >>



I bet someone with a huge financial interest in Trade Dollars could be the culprit -- trying to make his collection even worth more.

I know I'm dipping every marginally toned Peace $ I can get my hands on!!!!!!





Michael

haletj

He/she ruined more than one coin? Didn't he/she learn from the first? I can't see how he/she could have thought they'd be worth more or grade higher without the toning. It can't possibly have been done for financial reasons. It must be some type of strange reason.

Pistareen

Hi all:

TDN is right with the 1878-CC from Norweb -- they are unfortunately the same coin. I saw the piece when it came through ANR the first time around; this second time it is a part of Stack's session of our joint June sale so I didn't get to see the aftermath until just now. Having not seen the piece the 2nd time around in person, I can only hope it looks a trifle better in the round.

These things do happen, mostly to people who process product rather than those numismatists who happen to sell coins for a living. The only way to prevent it, in all honesty, is for original coins with superb provenance to be worth a substantial enough premium in and of themselves that they become too expensive (relative to other coins that are simply graded-coins-in-a-holder) for the doctors to risk such attempts at improvement. Some truly impressive coins, with long and historic pedigrees, have that blip in their past when researchers can pinpoint the exact time that they were dipped or otherwise played with. This one joins the ranks.

Another memorable example is the McCoy 1794 dollar, offered as far back as 1864 with graffiti, but offered in recent years totally devoid of the damage (and its provenance), but others could certainly be mentioned.

John K.

BigMoose

It should be considered a criminal act to do something like that to a previously truly nice coin.

Placid

On the bright side the remaining ones are a little more rare now.

Shamika

What in God's name was this idiot thinking?!

Yet another reason why dipping is BAD!

Shamika

What bothers me nearly as much is the fact that ANR is doing everything they can to hype these coins. Besides the blissful descriptions, they've even included color photos.

Up until now I've been super impressed with ANR. But now, well, it looks like they're in kahoots with the seller.

Not good.

ColonialCoinUnion

<< <i>What bothers me nearly as much is the fact that ANR is doing everything they can to hype these coins. Besides the blissful descriptions, they've even included color photos.

Up until now I've been super impressed with ANR. But now, well, it looks like they're in kahoots with the seller.

Not good. >>



Wrong. As JK points out above, the coin is in the Stack's portion of the joint ANR / Stack's catalog, so its Stack's thats hyping.

On the other hand, Stack's is working for the seller, and, just like the real estate agent who sold you your house, their job is not to point out that the basement will fill with water next time you have a shower. You know what I mean?

100proof1957

This is a total travesty.
take a beautiful coin and trash it.
everybody wants to make the big score,but to take a killer coin and dip it ?
a killer coin is just that,no matter what.
it stands on its own merits.
idiot probably pissed away 20 or 30 k
cut your leg off and see if you gain some value !


Proof

coinkat

About a week and a half ago, I said I would not post again on the US coin forum and after reading this thread, this post unfortunately, will be an exception... I have sent letters to PCGS, NGC and ANACS asking that a designation be added to coins with original surfaces and it fell upon deaf ears and even certain people, who will not be mentioned said there was not a demand for such a service... and now another rarity bites the dust and collectors complain... how many more original coins will be compromised? (for reasons that I will not go into...) Happy collecting everyone...

fcloud

Many of you know I prefer white coins. The key word being prefer, and I have come along way in the way in which I look at toned coins. I have a few nice toned coins in my collection and would never think of ruining them by making them white. What a pity that such a beautiful coin has now become such a blah piece of (fill in the blank).

I wish people understood not to clean coins.

When ever there is a thread should I clean or dip this coin. I respond with "leave it alone-don't dip." This is a great example of what happens when you try to improve a coin. It becomes far less valueable.

Dan769

Looks like that coin did get the crap kicked out of it, but how about that feature of moving the mouse to get the details close up?

I really enjoyed that. Wish all the big name web sites had that.



Dan769

Dabigkahuna

NCS "mistakes" ????

very sad.

Shamika

<< What bothers me nearly as much is the fact that ANR is doing everything they can to hype these coins. Besides the blissful descriptions, they've even included color photos.

Up until now I've been super impressed with ANR. But now, well, it looks like they're in kahoots with the seller.

Not good. >>


"Wrong. As JK points out above, the coin is in the Stack's portion of the joint ANR / Stack's catalog, so its Stack's thats hyping."



Sorry ANR. My bad.

lclugza

That's what's wrong with the coin market today- too many coins are sold not to collectors, but to "fast-buck artists." These "fast buck" guys are only interested in "flipping" the coin to a greater fool for a quick profit, often involving a "crack-out" and an "upgrade"- or I rather say, an overgrade.All they think aboit is that extra 1 or 2 points on the grade.

Frankcoins

Absolutely not the same coin...look at the skirt detail to the
left of Liberty's left elbow. Completely different.

aem4162

*anita gasps at the site of the butchered coin. a tear rolls down her face. she wishes she'd had the money for a coin like that, but it wasn't meant to be. she goes for a hurl*

dollardude

Yikes!

I'd like to beat the crap out of the person that did this, and also ANR for participating.

airplanenut

<< <i>Absolutely not the same coin...look at the skirt detail to the
left of Liberty's left elbow. Completely different. >>

Sorry, but that's not correct--that could simply be the angle of the light. Here is what matches exactly:

Below the 4th star on the left is a big strike through
Black spots between ES and O in STATES OF

Unquestionably, these are the same coin.

Frankcoins

I would have to concur with the reverse images... certainly the many dirt
spots on the reverse in the same position are damning. I still can't figure
out the obverse...around Liberty's left breast...the before coin has detail that
in the second coin appear as strike flatness...but the quality of the photo
is so high that large details shouldn't be obscured.

Could someone have placed the dirt in the same positions as a prank?

Very strange.

EvilMCT

So where's the coin posse? Oh yeah, dipping is deemed ok. Hope all of you advocates for dipping enjoy these. This is what the hobby is heading toward.

Ken