Moisture issues with safes?

jimtb

A question for you collectors out there storing your cards in safes- Are there moisture issues? Do you take any special precautions? Do you have a particular safe or company that you like?

I'm debating buying one, so I figured I'd better consult the experts first.
Thanks!
Jim

mudflap02

I store mine in a cardboard safe. I would think that the slab would alleviate any moisture problems.

interchanges

I have a nice medium size Sentry safe (model 1330) that holds about 6 of those black PSA storage boxes.
I would avoid keeping it in the basement where it's more moist to begin with.
I keep mine on the second floor.
Definately get one!

CON40

I carefully place all my PSA slabs on window sills with the faces of the cards turned to the glass. This keeps them nice and dry and bright! Never a moisture problem. Funny thing is, I never knoew Nolan Ryan wore a gray hat while pitching for the Angels? Must be a printing error! But on every card? Mybe I should move them to a sunnier spot.

Seriously, as long as you keep the cards in a dry, room temp environment there will be no moisture issues. Just don't put them in an area susceptible to wide tempwerature changes as that will cause condensation, potentially on the inside of the slab. But, I have literally dipped slabs into a sink of water (I like clean slabs with no germies) and the water cannot get through the seal.

perkdog

I never thought of this, other than direct sunlight has anyone had problems as far as the psa holders discoloring cards?

murcerfan

throw a couple of those moisture dessicant pouches (they come with electronics sometimes) into your safe. an open cup of rice or a small piece of kiln dried white pine or even cedar(will also make your cards smell like the woods around here)...... will do the same job.....the pouches being far easier.

shagrotn77

Murcerfan,

Where can I pick up those moisture pouches?

murcerfan

I just do the science, not the sales.
how it works

try a google search google

RayDBonz

I have a couple Champion safes (50 cubic foot and 35 cubic foot), but I have other goodies to store as well. Each safe has a "golden rod" in it. It's a small, plug-in dehumidifier rod. They get warm to the touch, so don't place it where anything that may melt will touch it!! Any safe store will sell them. Usually around $35.00 each. The safe installer can drill a small hole in the back to pass the cord through (at the same time he bolts the safe to the floor). The rods come with mounting brackets that can attach to the bottom of a shelf, etc.

The problem with any fire safe is that to protect from fire, they release moisture into the safe. Not a problem unless you are storing firearms or other rust-prone items. A golden rod or the dessicant packs (must be recharged in an oven every so often) will keep the internal humidity under control. Of course, the best way to keep the internal humidity from being a problem is to keep the safe door open. If you are in and out of the safe fairly often, the humidity is not an issue. Open it every couple days to play with your toys and all is well!!

Bill

DirtyHarry

You can get reusable desiccant canisters for $10 each from
Light Impressions--- www.lightimpressionsdirect.com

jimtb

Great information! A professionally installed safe sounds like the way to go. Any ideas on how much to install and deliver?

I'm looking at putting ungraded material in the safe as well, that's why I asked the moisture question.

Mercerfan needs to change his name to Mr. Science.

pc

i heard that vaseline shouldn't be used with petroleum based safes.

gemint

Move to California. It's nice and dry here!

Bighurt4

I am sitting here imagining Keith with yellow gloves up to his elbows and a sink of water and Dawn washing slabs. I am officially smiling. Thanks.

Brent

jimtb

Gemint-
I'm in Orlando - the humidity capital of the world! it's 95 here today with 70% humidity. Not exactly cardboard friendly conditions...

Griffins

Gemint-
Not dry enough in LA! Maybe SF has gotten rid of that fog problem.
I highly recommend a dehumidifier- a friend didn't have one in his safe and within 6 months all his hasselblad lenses had mildew growing within, ruining them. I"m sure slabs are compltely moisture free, 35-50. is cheap insurance.

PhilG

"The safe installer can drill a small hole in the back to pass the cord through (at the same time he bolts the safe to the floor)."

Drilling a hole thru the back of the safe would probably lower the fire rating a tad. Kind of like leaving the door open.


Underwriters Laboratories

The most common fire rating is the Underwriters Laboratories (U.L.) 350 degree 1 hour rating. In order for a safe to earn this rating, the manufacture must submit the safe to U.L., it is then heated in a furnace at 1700 degrees for one hour. The inside temperature cannot exceed 350 degrees, or the safe fails the test. While the safe is heated, it is dropped to simulate a second floor collapsing, the safe cannot burst open, or it fails. The average house fire is 1200 degrees, and paper chars at approximately 450 degrees. Some safes will have a 2 hour 350 degree U.L. fire rating, this means the safe passed the same test, with the time being 2 hours instead of 1 hour. If you wish to store computer disks, picture negatives, tapes, etc... in your safe you will need a safe with a special fire rating. The most common is the U.L. 125 degree 1 hour fire rating. This means the inside temperature did not exceed 125 degrees, also, did not exceed 80% relative humidity during the same test mentioned above.

marty

My safe is a Yale. It is a two hour fire safe and a 30 minute tool safe, 5 numbers on a 1-100 tumbler. I bought it from a pawn shop that went out of business. I had to move it on a flat bed tow truck, I did not want any safe that could be picked up by two people. Bolt this to the floor and it is pretty secure. I think that I have about $600.00 into this safe. I have the safe in Arizona, and even on the day that it rains every year, I have not had any problem with moisture.

jimtb

Phil G - Great info! where'd you get it from? I'd like to check out the site.

Marty- $600.00 sounds like an investment in sleeping well at night to me... Thanks.
Jim

murcerfan

don't forget that PSA/SGC slabs are water/moisture vapor proof themselves.....
............unless you bought the WIWAG versions.

PhilG

Found the fire rating information at TheKeyShop.Com


My hoard of 1993 Topps Finest Baseball Refractors

jimtb

Thanks PhilG! The site has a lot of great info. Now I need to find a local source and make the investment.

Buckwheat

I bought an American Security gun safe, but with flat shelves rather than shelves designed for rifles. I imagine it would hold about 50-75 of the PSA black cardboard boxes. It weighs about 550 lbs. I paid $250 to have it delivered from the store by a local moving company. They only moved it, and I have to bolt it to the floor, though the safe has predrilled holes, and comes with the screws.

I bought it at Galyans sporting goods store. The price was less than half what the WEB site lists as retail. They just recently started carrying them, but I don't know how long they will continue. It is a very specialized business, and I am not sure that you can make any money at it the way they do it. Since the safes have to stay closed in the store, the salespeople are always having to open them. And since the salespeople are so many, most don't know much about them, and it is obvious that they don't like to deal with them.

There are safe dealers in most every large city.

AMSEC Safes

Mitochondria

Nice thread. I purchased a Liberty gun safe (~ $1400) about a year ago. Like Rob, I opted for the flat shelves. The company was kind enough to provide me with a dehumidifier as compensation for accidently damaging my floor during the move. They actually drilled through a precut hole in the back because the dehumidifier required electricity. In addition, they informed me that the safe would get warm (over 110 degrees Farhenheit!) in the process of dehumidifying. I decided not to turn it on due to not knowing the effects of chronic dehumidification. Honestly, I am not sure what the right answer is other than to say that is reasonable to assume that the fire rating was decreased as a result of the hole being created. Again, I was happy with the service and they did the best they could under the circumstances.

Certainly, the PSA holders can withstand 110 degrees F without any problem. I believe that Dude actually subjected the holders to much higher temperatures than this in his evaluation of temperature effects. In any event, I am happier with the safe than the old strategy; the bank deposit box. I am closely watching the storage industry's trend. The binders being sold by mjroop look nice. They are also advertising a 4 pocket page for PSA graded cards. Any feedback/experiences on these products would be helpful.

Ron

jimtb

Buckwheat & Ron,
Did you put your safes in a closet? My home office doubles as my baseball room. I could put the safe in that closet.
Jim

Mitochondria

jimtb,

I placed my safe in a room as opposed to a closet or basement. My wife put some knick-knacks and other accessories on it to make it part of the home. Nevertheless, if my central cooling broke down, the whole house would be vulnerable to the Florida humidity!

Ron

Buckwheat

Mine is in a walk in closet. Although they make them rather attractive, and they would do fine to just sit out in the open.

Virtualizard

Sort of on topic, I did do some experiments last year with the effect of light and heat on PSA and SGC slabbed cards. Here is a link to the previous thread on the effect of heat. There is a link to the "Effect of Light" thread in my initial post, if anyone is interested.

I may do some more "experiments" soon. I think further research needs to be done with heat. I only "baked" the SGC slabs at 170°. I think I'll try some PSA slabs and see what the limitations are. I also have a pool at my new house. I think I'll submerge a slab or two at the bottom of the pool for a while and see what happens. Any other suggestions for experiments would be welcome as well. I, unfortunately, have many "test subjects" from the past few years of submissions!

JEB.

Mitochondria

Jeb,

Awesome results. That pool study will be interesting. Does anyone remember that one grading company who had slabbed cards sitting in a fish tank with a couple of goldfish at the Cleveland national a few years ago? If the cards survive, then this would initate questions on whether we should really be concerned about humidity afterall.

Ron

Virtualizard

Ron,

I have subjected PSA graded cards to some harsh climates, including water, in the past. I don't anticipate a problem with water damage. BTW, I just got out of the pool - 2 cards are now submerged. I'll check them out tomorrow afternoon.

JEB.

Virtualizard

OK.

Here are scans of the 2 cards I placed in the pool, front and back:







BTW, they float. It started raining while I was at it. Sparky and company looked lonely, so I threw in some company:





JEB.

jimtb

Ron & Jeb,
I'm also in Florida, so the humidity was a concern. Based upon Jeb's weekend experiment, it looks as if a slab is really the way to go to protect your cards. Jeb, I love the shot of the cards floating in your pool - it's a classic!
Jim

Mitochondria

jimtb,

I have to agree that JEB's photo of "Slabbed Baseball Cards in the Pool while it Rains" will go down as one of my favorite hobby moments of 2004!

Ron

PhilG

Our guard lizard, Taste like Chicken, hard at work. So far she hasn’t lost a card.




My collection of 1993 Topps Finest Baseball Refractors

jimtb

That's what I need - screw the safe, buy an attack lizard!

Virtualizard

<< <i>Our guard lizard, Taste like Chicken, hard at work. So far she hasn’t lost a card.




My collection of 1993 Topps Finest Baseball Refractors >>




PhilG,

Thanks for the picture! That was almost a haiku that you wrote - all but the last verse - this would qualify:

Our guard lizard
Taste like Chicken, hard at work
Has not lost a card.



JEB.