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So the U.S. Commonwealth of the N. Mariana Islands issues their own money now?
XpipedreamR
Posts: 8,059 ✭✭
And their new coinage is 1933 double eagle replicas?
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Do they actually spend these gold plated turds there?
And what does Barry Goldwater Jr. have to say about this?
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Do they actually spend these gold plated turds there?
And what does Barry Goldwater Jr. have to say about this?
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<< <i>Legal Currency... >>
WTF?
<< <i>All tributes to original coins contain the "copy" designation as mandated by federal law. >>
Ya, I do not see that on the coin. By the sounds of it, the COA's don't either.
These have been talked about a few times on the boards.
What is sad is when they sell for Thousands of dollars on Ebay.
Eisenhower Dollar, BU
Set Incomplete:
Roosevelt Dime
1900 - Current Type, No Gold
Silver Eagle
<< <i><< All tributes to original coins contain the "copy" designation as mandated by federal law. >>
Ya, I do not see that on the coin. By the sounds of it, the COA's don't either. >>
That is because this is NOT a "tribute" to an original coin. They are maintaining that this IS and original coin. This is supposedly a legal coin issued by the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas. It is NOT simply a copy or "tribute" to an original coin. Therefore it does not have to have COPY stamped on it.
The problem is that the CNMI does not have the authority to issue coins since they are a commonwealth of the United States and are subject to our laws in these matters. Unless this is to be taken as a statement or declaration of independence by the Northern Marianas.
Still they should not be confused with the simple copies that the National Collectors Mint has been turning out for the past two years.
More info on the CNMI, courtesy of the CIA.
<< <i> Is it truly legal tender of the CNMI? The CNMI is a commonweath of the United States, not unlike Puerto Rico, and uses US dollars as its currency. >>
Good question, I don't know the answer to that one. The Constitution reserves to the Federal government the right to create money but the CNMI is not a state or even a territory. More like a country that we are providing administration for. They have their own elected government as well. If that government contracted for their own local coinage I'm not sure if it would be legal or not, and as I said earlier it could also be the first step in them declaring their independence from the US.
<< <i> If this is "legal", then it should be "spendable" here in California. >>
Why? Marshall Islands, Ecuador, and several other countries use US dollars as well. That doesn't mean their coins and currency are usable here.
<< <i>Why? Marshall Islands, Ecuador, and several other countries use US dollars as well. That doesn't mean their coins and currency are usable here. >>
But the Marshall Islands and Ecuador are *not* the United States. CNMI is part of the US. It's not that they use US$ as a currency of convenience like Ecuador -- US$ are their national currency, just like they are in Puerto Rico or California. Indeed, the "coin" in question says "United States of America" and is denominated in dollars.
Like I said, it vexes me.
<< <i>This "coin" vexes me. Is it truly legal tender of the CNMI? >>
I think with this company and the way it markets things, you have to look at exactly what they say. They say "Legal Currency" not "Legal Tender". I believe Legal Tender has a very specific and legal definition. "Legal Currency", on the other hand, could probably mean anything and nothing.
Edited to correct spelling
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After discussions between the US Mint, CNMI, ANA, and the Dept of the Interior(?) as to the legality of CNMI issuing these as legal tender, an agreement has been reached.
I bought 5 of them just for the fun of it. They are beautiful pieces and great conversation starters. No "COPY" or number stamped in.
And the COA:
says USA on it and $20 the secret service will have no choice but to shut them down.
<< <i>After discussions between the US Mint, CNMI, ANA, and the Dept of the Interior(?) as to the legality of CNMI issuing these as legal tender, an agreement has been reached. >>
And that agreement is ... what?
If I went to a bank in Saipan, could I get spendable cash for one of these?
What exactly is the difference between "legal tender" and "legal currency"?
(still vexed, obviously)
Legally valid currency that may be offered in payment of a debt and that a creditor must accept.
Note that is a "creditor" and not a private business/individual who can deny to accept any particular money they want for goods and services.
Legal Currency, as far as I know, is a made up term with no real meaning other than what NCM wants it to mean. You could break it down into 'legal' and 'currency' but that may not be what it is intended to mean by this company when used as the term 'Legal Currency'. I imagine they would have to be asked what Legal Currency means.
As for anyone accepting them for goods or services, I seriously doubt they would accept any more than they would accept it if I minted my own "Legal Currency" made out of cheese and crackers.
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It would probably be a Bank of Guam
I like Saipan and shouldn't have knocked her too hard.. my apologies..but still say put "copy" real small on it somewhere or stop
Haven't tried to buy a gallon of milk with one yet! Might be interesting!
I would imagine that a practical definition of legal currency would be currency that in itself is not legal tender (And therefore NOT a legal offer of payment in a transaction, although they could be accepted if the ceditor chooses.) but which is exchangeable for legal tender. (Note I say that may be a practical definition, not that these CNMI are actually exchangable.)
<< <i>As for anyone accepting them for goods or services, I seriously doubt they would accept any more than they would accept it if I minted my own "Legal Currency" made out of cheese and crackers.
Depending on how hungry I am, what kind of cheese, and if you brought wine, I might accept your cheese and crackers as "legal currency"
Looks like they got busted, and are now putting the "COPY" stamp on them (see around the bottom of the eagle). I got the same COA that spy88 got -- the number's up to 23098. It still says that it's "legal currency" of the CNMI, despite the copy stamp.
I think I'll try to get it slabbed
<< <i>Well, I ordered one of these, and guess what?
Looks like they got busted, and are now putting the "COPY" stamp on them (see around the bottom of the eagle). I got the same COA that spy88 got -- the number's up to 23098. It still says that it's "legal currency" of the CNMI, despite the copy stamp.
I think I'll try to get it slabbed
Well now it's an interesting "coin". They surely won't sell many more and this
type will be relatively scarce. Now if it were only cheap...
3916309281
3916212271
3916187193
3916187167
3916175257
3915937186
David
and with no convertability to any bonifide coin of the Relm. Its just another
one of those trash pieces of metal with no intrinsic, numismatic or face value.
Pretty it may be but worthless it surly is.
Camelot
<< <i>If anyone is interested, there are at least 6 for grabs via eBay. Here are the auction numbers of just the six I noticed WITHOUT the "copy" stamp. Not quite the rarity yet by the bid/BIN prices.
3916309281
3916212271
3916187193
3916187167
3916175257
3915937186 >>
Only the last one is the un-COPY'd CNMI version -- the others are various other replicas.
Hope you find one!
David
The story was picked up by the AP, for example, reported here by KPUA in Hawaii.
The CNMI replied to the story here, saying:
The government of the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands does not have the legal authority, either under the Constitution of the CNMI or the Covenant that established its political union with the United States, to authorize any individual, group or corporation to mint and sell coins that are 'legal tender'.
So basically, the National Collector's Mint is full of shit, which we all suspected anyway.