bench registry has ? for ryan registry

speeder

i`ve noticed that there is a nolan ryan (topps) registry. how did that come about ? does it take away from the basic or master sets ?
I am considering starting one for johnny bench. would like some input before i go any farther with it.
your friend, lee



#1 ~ ALL TIME FINEST ~ JOHNNY BENCH MASTER SET (over 50 pics)

rw2win

I for one think it's a great idea. The later yr. cards of fleer and donruss add nothing for me. Request it through proper channels.

Bighurt4

I am fairly new to the Ryan Sets but I love the Topps Set. When I started collecting, Topps was what it was all about. I am pretty sure most collectors had similar beginnings. It also eliminates the need to pick a lot of extraneous cards if/until you want to.

Brent

sjeanblanc

Hi Speeder and Rw2win,

I think the Ryan Topps set was the first Ryan Player set to come into existance. The Master set was called the Nolan Ryan Player set, before they got into the Master and Basic things.

Me personally I see value in all three sets:

Basic Set ) Gives you short term satisfaction and an achievable goal that can be reached without a lot of frustration.

Master Set) Gives you a grand challenage, can you a) find the cards, b) afford the cards when you find them, and c) is an endevour that will take you quite some time depending on how many cards there are to obtain for a given player.

Topps Set) To me is purity, when you think of baseball cards Topps is the first thing that comes to mind at least for me. I know there are Bowman, T206, Playball, Cracker Jack, but for pure longevity in the hobby noone matches Topps. Depending on your player a pure Topps set can be a large undertaking, for Nolan Ryan its almost perfectly fit between the Basic and Master sets.

So the answer to your question of does a Topps set add or take away from collecting my player of choice the answer is a resounding, Yes it adds to the collection experience and No is doesn't take away from the other two sets. Anything that gives collectors choices is a good thing in my view, and I know that Rw2win is not alone in his feelings about Fleer, Donruss, and Upper Deck. They may have added competition to a market that may or may not have needed it, but in the end I feel that they have diluted the hobby so badly that it will be hard pressed to continue at its current pace. Products that are $500 a pack?, 20 different sets from just one manufacter? Game used cards ruining priceless and irreplacable pieces of memorabilia? Some how I find it hard to believe this is a good thing for what used to be a simple and enjoyable hobby for KIDS.

Off the soap box now.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
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Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

speeder

does psa just crossover topps cards that have allready been listed and likewise with grade weights ?

Bighurt4

Yes speeder, I only have one copy of each card but list them in all three.

Great analysis on the sets Scott. They all serve their purpose. I started on the Basic and eventually added the others. Topps is the standard bearer and will probably remain so. Anything that adds enjoyment to the collecting should be celebrated.

Brent

sjeanblanc

Yes, they should. The Ryan Topps set has slightly different weighting, but again I attribute that to its being the first Ryan set and it just hasn't been updated.

If you submit to BJ a Johnny Bench Topps Checklist you could also include the weights for each card and they may just use them in an effort to save time.

I know we (Ryan collectors) are working on a checklist for both the Master and Topps sets, because both need a lot of work. The Master set is missing tons of cards and the Topps set is full of things PSA won't grade or are not named correctly or are just plain missing from the set. We also will be providing BJ with a new weighting for both sets once we are finished.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
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Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

Bighurt4

Hey Scott,

As an aside, all of the Ryan cards I have are very hard to get, just weight them 10 in each set.

Brent

speeder

did`nt i see in another thread where ryan set folks decided to restrict the use or overuse of some cards ? I know in the bench master registry there are currently 31, 1978 sportsdeck playing cards and 14, 1977 pepsi-cola reds playing cards. I personally would like to
stop these numbers right where they are, 52 cards per deck,,,, 2 seperate decks,,,, ENOUGH !!

Bighurt4

Yeah speeder, it was the Pacifics that cheesed everyone. We voted on all(?) open issues. I love a democracy. I hope it spreads to Con40's home state.

Brent

sjeanblanc

Speeder,

Ya, we voted the Pacific and Star sets out of the Master set and they will be set up as their own sets if someone wishes to pay PSA to grade the cards.

The first card from each Pacific set and Star set remained in the Master set for representation purposes. The remaining cards of those sets really offered no value in their inclusion in the set, plus their sheer numbers were ridiculus. Two of the Pacific sets alone were over 100 cards each. The Upper Deck Comic Ball cards were also banished with the exception of the two Promo cards from the 1991 National. BJ conducted a poll of all Nolan Ryan Set members, and I believe the removal of the Pacific, Star, and Upper Deck Comic Ball cards was uninamous or very close to it.

I feel that if a subset of cards is going into a Master set it should be limited to 10-20 cards in size, that is managable without bordering on the insanity that is the Pacific cards. We have an 11 cards set of Upper Deck Heroes, a 10 card set of 1993 Mothers cookies, and 8 card set of 1992 Mothers cookies, and quite a few sets in the 4-6 card range.

I saw some of the cards your talking about in the Pete Rose set, personally I think it dilutes the set when there are so many cards with such little difference in them. Four cards would do, say the highest from each suit. That would include them without them looking like clutter. IMO.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
--------------------------------------------
Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

jrdolan

Lee, how 'bout you get them to start a Bench Master Set Registry minus 1971 Greatest Moments. Oh yeah, and Kahn's Wieners. And those troublesome Venezuelan issues. Maybe call it the Bench Master Set That Can Actually Be Completed.

Bighurt4

If the collectors of the Bench Set get together with unanimity, that would be a great idea. Whatever enhances the joy of collecting should be evaluated, discussed and enacted.

Brent

speeder

john, i have 2 of those, the 71 greatest moments (psa-7) and both troublesome venezuelan issues 68 (psa-5) and the 77 (psa-1)
and i will have that 68 kahns (someday) hey , its a MASTER set. but these playing cards, i believe they were added on to pump up
someones set rating, then everyone else has had to do it to keep up. man, we could end up with 104 playing cards added to the set.
i say we keep it where its at, or reduce the set to only include 1 representive card from each playing card deck. lee

jimtb

I think this Topps only set is a great idea! As another modern collector (Alan Trammell) it can become daunting just to complete the basic set. Then there is the discussion of what basic really means - is Bowman basic? How about SP? and so on. It would be a great entry level into player collecting.
Jim

speeder

hi jim, are you sure it would be entry level ? what about such cards as the 71 topps greatest moments, 73 topps candy lid,
74 topps deckle edge etc.... ????

jimtb

Hi Speeder,
Tram's first card was in 1978, so I get to skip all those tough early 70's sets...

speeder

hey scott, or anyone who might know
on the topps set did you (or should we) include all topps cards, test issue cards like 1970+73 candy lids,, 73+79 topps comics,, 74 topps deckle edge,, etc.... ???????

who should i speake with at psa about the topps set and the capping of the playing cards ?????

will psa contact bench registry folks about the possible change ???

seems i`m a man with alot of ???????

just for fun,

sjeanblanc

Hi Speeder,

1) If it was issued by Topps and PSA will grade it, then it should be in the Topps set. The Nolan Ryan Topps set has a few holes in it, that hopefully in the near future we will plug. The 73 Candy Lid, 70 Transogram and a fair amount of stickers need to be added to the Nolan Ryan Topps set. Mudflap02 just got a graded Ryan 73 Candy lid, so I would imagine hes submitted a request for entry of that already.

2) Send an email to BJ and ask her if she will create a poll for all Bench collectors, and give her all the information that will cover your concerns.

3) BJ just might do the same thing for Bench collectors that she did for the Ryan collectors. She's an awesome resource that really wants to have the Set Registry be what the collectors want it to be. So there is precident for PSA to contact set collectors.

4) Absolutely no problem with having questions, the only stupid question is the one that is never asked.

Scott Jeanblanc
jeanblanc@iconnect.net
Ebay UserId : sjeanblanc
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Collecting Nolan Ryan cards (68-94)

speeder

thank you very much scott, you to brent !!
your help has been super, but it only figures, the absolute best pitcher (right or left handed !) in the baseball history would
come to the aid of the best catcher this sport has ever seen !!
i`ll keep you both informed, if you do not mind ?
your friend, lee

again, just for fun !

peterredshoes

Jim,

A Trammell Topps set designed in the same fashion as the Ryan Topps set would be fairly good sized--The Ryan set, so far as I can gather from inspecting the checklist, contains every card whose set name starts with "Topps." So inserts, susbet cards, stickers, Tiffany cards, Micro cards, etc. are in, but Stadium Club, Finest, etc. are out.

With some help from homemade software, I did a quick sifting operation on my Trammell master checklist (playing years only) and came up with a 62-card list. My checklist doesn't include approximately 15 stickers (and those wonderful Rub-on tatoos!) that would qualify, but does include a few retail sets that may not actually qualify if I've included Topps in a name where I shouldn't have (e.g. Topps Rite Aid MVPs). Suffice to say that the Trammell Topps set would likely contain roughly the same number of cards as a basic set consisting of nothing but Topps, Donruss, Fleer, Score, and Upper Deck cards (71).

I think the appeal of this set design is the ability to incorporate some nonbasic cards into a set that still has manageable size--kind of a hybrid of the basic and master concepts, but with a nice simple inclusion rule to provide some structure. You get key basic cards plus some interesting oddballs.

Peter G.

Bighurt4

Always glad to offer what I can speeder, even with a somewhat short term perspective. The Ryan Set is so much fun because of the friendship and competitiveness of the collectors. I am just glad one of my favorite all time players has fans that emulate him in so many ways.

Anyone need a hug after that lovefest?
Brent

mudflap02

I just wanted to throw some stuff out there as I am so apt to do.

It looks like most of your concerns about the Bench sets have been addressed. The main thing to remember is that the sets are created, defined, owned and enjoyed by you the collector, Psa is just the middleman that gives your cards plastic houses and a home on the interweb. If there is something you want addressed, just let them know and they will bend over backwards to accomodate you and the other collectors of the set.

As far as the redundant cards go (playing cards, Pacific garbage), it's a really slippery slope. I was and still am against having the Pacific cards in the Ryan set because for all practical purposes it just doesn't make sense to include it. The set was produced in the early 90's after the card market was already oversaturated, and attempted to capitalize on Ryan's previous successes. I'm sure the playing cards are the same way - I'm pretty sure that when the Big red Machine was at its peak, you could have slapped a white C on a painted turd and somebody would have paid good American money for it. But at the same time, the point of a master set is to include every card of the player ever produced. However, if that entire set were included, it would make up about 25% of what is already a huge set. It will not be easily explained as new members join the Ryan registry, but hopefully they will see our logic. (I'm still in favor of including the Ventura fight card from that set instead of the first card. That is the one Pacific card I don't mind)

It would also be kind of cool if we could vote on other things the way we voted on the set. We could gather once a year at the National wearing loincloths and bearskins, circling a fire of Pacific cards. Joe Orlando would be there, asking each one of us questions about how the past year has gone with the Registry and our feelings about those ahead of and behind us. This would all occur during the Set Registry luncheon, with thousands of people watching in stony silence. One at a time, we stand up, walk over to a table, write down a name on a piece of paper, and put it in a card saver with a sticker on the back of your current position on th registry. The votes would be tallied in another room by the two guys from Cincinnatti trying to sell the Honus Wagner card (which would remain in their sight). They would then come in and announce the name of the person with the most votes, whose cards would be evenly distributed throughout the other collectors, the loser being banished from the registry forever. If we did this every year, one of us would end up with an awesome set.

jrdolan

Hey now, mudflap, don't you go poking fun at my red-painted turds with a white C on them. I'm trying to get PSA to grade them and include them in the Bench and Rose Master registries. I think the problem is they don't have the right holder....

jrdolan

Lee, if you someday find that your extra Greatest Moments is taking up unnecessary space, I'll be happy to help you out.

Bighurt4

jr,

The easiest way to get them slabbed is to have Bench sign them, send to PSA/DNA for authentication and on to PSA for grading. Of course, if they were trimmed in any way, you may have to go the Gem way, lol.

Brent

mudflap02

Dude, maybe it's the cold frostie talking, but I would pay PSA $50 to slab one of my turds. How gross would that be? I would give them out to kids for halloween.

mudflap02

Now that I read that, definitely the cold frostie. Any credibility I once had is gone.

I'm using this smiley because there is not one for shame and I'm prtty sure it's never been used before, so from now on this one means shame.

Bighurt4

There is absolutely positively no way I am going to say what I would have slabbed.

Brent

mudflap02

I hope the shame smiley catches on.

jrdolan

I just remembered that PSA already grades and slabs painted turds. They're called 1955 Bowman.

(Not to seem anti-Bowman, Topps also put out some not very well painted turds in 1962 and 1970)

Bighurt4

LOL, great point jr, personally, I hate 1982 Fleer.

Brent

koby

<< <i>I just remembered that PSA already grades and slabs painted turds. They're called 1955 Bowman.

(Not to seem anti-Bowman, Topps also put out some not very well painted turds in 1962 and 1970) >>




LOL

1955 Bowman, 1962 Topps and 1970 Topps all qualify, but I am sure we can think of other hideous sets.