Problems with new Beckett Pricing

joestalin

I just got the new beckett football and couldn't believe some of the new values they are
putting on cards. They have the Press Pass Eli Manning at 175.00 and the sage isn't too far behind,
actually the Sage Manning jersey is 60 bucks! In the past these autograph cards were never
priced above 80 bucks or so, as a matter of fact I think Vick came out at 60. It really seems like
beckett is making a push on these early releases, the values of these cards seem to be very
high. Ben Roth..... drafted by the Steelers is over 100 bucks too. Sure he is big but he played
at the University of Miami at Ohio! I would rather have a Vick auto. Also note that in the hot
list section beckett made a big deal about how great Press Pass was and that they auto
was on the card and not some sticker....Ive opened Press Pass and have pulled awful graphs
not to mention you only get 3-4 per box and not 5 like Sage

Also on my complaint list is the Tom Brady SPA rookie card at 400.00!!!! Ill be the first to agree that
Brady is proving himself to be a great QB, but why is this card, numbered to a hefty 1250 worth
more than the Contender Auto RC which books at only 200? The SPA has no auto, no jersey or
no patch! I haven't watched ebay prices but I would rather have the auto RC any day of the year!

Also, I don't get the AJ Feeley story...250 for this contender rookie card??? Is this skinny twig
really going to lead the Fish to a super bowl, or is the draw the low print run of 200?

Thanks
JS

TheRoach

Ahhhh, finally someone that has some good points on Beckett. I wanna vomit everytime I pick up a new one. I agree 100% with all that you said. I do not care if it is Playoff or SP Authentic, I will always buy 2 Contenders Auto fo Brady opposed to 1 SP Authentic any chance I could. It does not make sense at all.

The collectors will force Beckett to raise these prices one day. I have pointed out the 2001 Titanium set once before. Granted, it is Pacific, but each rookie in the set is serial numbered out of just 75 copies!!! Top it off, all of them have a nice piece of GAME USED Jersey on each one. Not EVENT USED! Plus, most of them are nice, 3-4 color swatches. 75 COPIES! THAT'S IT!!

How long will Beckett keep them so undervalued? A SP Authentic Ladanian Tomlinson just went up to like $200 in last months Beckett, and it has a solid one color swatch ( usually ), and they are numbered out of 500 I believe. But a nice, 3 colored swatch on a Tomlinson Rc that is numbered out of just 75 copies books for $150. Get real!

I have been stocking up on the 2001 Titanium rookies for the past month. I have been buting them up as they surface. One day, when they pretty much dry up to master sets, or because I own them all, the whole set will explode. You heard it here first.



TheRoach

carew4me

Why do you clowns waste your money on Beckett?

Its solely for the double wide collector to price his refractors....oh that explains it then

cspeier1

Beckett and SMR and Tuffstuff are for a baseline. They're intended for the collector or dealer who is humble and has enough balls to admit that he don't know everything.. I have books for the car business, but I can tell you what something is worth just by the year, make, and miles. It's called knowing your business.. I'm like the rest, everytime I get a new beckett I want to barf... It's like anything, it's worth what someone is willing to pay. In the car business we always say that NADA or Kelley Blue Book are for the bankers.. So they don't loan to much money..

Chad

TheRoach

<< <i>Why do you clowns waste your money on Beckett?

Its solely for the double wide collector to price his refractors....oh that explains it then >>




The same reason you piss away $$$ on Playgirl. We want to see what is rising.

What is "Buttered and Slabbed" in your sig line mean? If I were to guess, I would guess that is how you prefer your men?

Clown, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything. Better yet, just don't say anything.


TheRoach

cspeier1

Hey Roach





That's just F'IN funny!!
The same reason you piss away $$$ on Playgirl. We want to see what is rising.

joestalin

well its obvious that carew and csp have no clue about this topic...thanks roach.....anyone else?

JS

cspeier1

well its obvious that carew and csp have no clue about this topic

What are you talking about JS??

Chad

joestalin

Chad

I think we have been all been over the obvious...how we use beckett and just how acurate it is, but I
was talking about a few specific examples namely the high price of press pass and sage this year. I
was hoping for discussion on that and not the overall impression of beckett.

Thanks
JS

cspeier1

Got it! Sorry

Chad

Woodson28Fan

As a big pro football fan and not college fan, I used to enjoy buying some Press Pass before the season started as a way to familiarize myself with the rookies and just enjoy some early pack opening. In the last few years it seems Press Pass and Sage have really begin to price themselves out of the market as they attempt to compete with the big boys. I kind of liked their niche before these last few years, but now I just wait for regular standard issues, especially the Topps Pros and Prospects - which I think is great for making a set. I agree Beckett seems to be hyping these brands bigtime.

goodriddance189

i don't want to get on a rant about Beckett, because i am at work and don't have several hours to spent writing a novel. but for the Press Pass cards, i think they are accurately reporting market prices (at least for last month). you can't blame them for reporting ebay and shop prices, cause the figures you provided are what they're selling for.

but this is exactly the problem with Beckett, especially in today's fast paced market. they price cards pretty accurately, based on LAST MONTH'S data. this worked well several years ago, before the internet and hundreds of new releases a month. but with more cards being released, sets become obsolete much faster. cards that were selling well last week are soon replaced by just-released products. then those just-released sets are replaced by newer sets the following week. it used to be that cards held their value for pretty much the entire season, and collectors finally lost interest when next year's sets were released. back then, monthly guides like Beckett worked well.

but the times, they are a changin'. with the proliferation of more and more sets, each product has a shorter shelf life and popularity. it's finally gotten to the point that products sell well for periods of much shorter than one month (Beckett's publication method). does this make Beckett and other monthly price guides obsolete? i think so. there are very few products that hold their value for long enough for Beckett to go through the printing and distribution process. i think it's partly Beckett's fault, since this has been going on for a few years and they have done nothing to catch up to the market.

the days of monthly price guides might be numbered. Beckett does well on their annual guides, which focus more on vintage and oddball issues (stuff where the price hardly fluctuates). but their monthly guides could go the way of the dinosaur. they work well for casual collectors, but do not for hardcore collectors who regularly buy and sell cards. i don't know much about the online price guides, but if i remember correctly they update prices every 2 weeks. since their focus of their mag is on the price guide section, i think they should start focusing more on online subscriptions, where they can update prices once a week. perhaps their articles (which have dwindled in the past several years) could be free to the public, and the price guide could be a monthly or yearly subscription.

joestalin

goodrid...so you are seeing the press pass autos selling well? Better than the Sage?

I don't think I have a problem with how beckett prices cards, for the most part their prices
are all about the same in comparison to what they sell for on ebay. The half book rule for
selling is usually about right, however I do see some older modern cards like 1998 autograph
cards for instance book much higher that that same card today. Back in 98 a card with a
print run of 25 might get a huge multiplier and book at 400 bucks, while today it might
book 80 bucks.

In comparison to the press pass and sage of the last couple of years these cards really
shocked me, perhaps I need to do some research on what the Manning is selling for, but
that seems really high. Good time to sell maybe, surely the only way for these cards is
down. Or course they will be your only way to get autos of Mike Williams and Clarett, SAGE
boxes are wholesaling for around 100...will they keep this price?

Kevin

NickM

I look at new Becketts for the breakdown on the new sets - insert ratios, what cards are SPs and at what quantities/ratios, what the names of the various parallels/inserts/subsets/etc. are. Even there I find problems. I picked up a 2003-04 Tuomo Ruutu Bowman rookie a couple days ago (#156). Beckett says it's autographed, and prices it at $25 high. It's not autographed. [It cost me 50 cents, so it's not a problem for its value.]

Nick

AlanAllen

Kevin,
All of your arguments are irrelevant. Beckett doesn't care what college a player went to, or what Vick used to sell for in the same set, or how skinny a quarterback is. All they care about is what a card is selling for. If you want to argue that their pricing sucks because they are not reflecting market conditions, fine (and you'd be right), but arguing that their pricing sucks because you think Brady's Contenders RC should be priced higher than the SPA RC even though the market clearly shows that the SPA consistently sells for more (look at completed auctions) is bunk.

Joe

joestalin

Joe

I guess then I don't understand why anyone would pay 400 dollar for an un-autographed card
when they could buy TWO autographed rookie cards. Im not here just to bash beckett, Im
just wondering why the non-autoed card is worth twice as much? That just stupid...you can't see
that?

JS

AlanAllen

<< <i>Joe

I guess then I don't understand why anyone would pay 400 dollar for an un-autographed card
when they could buy TWO autographed rookie cards. Im not here just to bash beckett, Im
just wondering why the non-autoed card is worth twice as much? That just stupid...you can't see
that?

JS >>


Yeah, that is kinda silly. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because SP has been around longer so it has a more devoted following, and has created so many "key" RCs that people just assume the SPA will be a guy's best RC. I agree that Contenders is underpriced in comparison. But I do think Beckett is correct to price it higher, because that's how the market is acting right now.

Joe

ranch

<< <i>Also, I don't get the AJ Feeley story...250 for this contender rookie card??? Is this skinny twig
really going to lead the Fish to a super bowl, or is the draw the low print run of 200? >>



Skinny twig? He's 6'3 225 pounds.

joestalin

225 wet maybe! Did you see him get broke in half on that Monday night game? He is one hit away from
holding the clipboard in a full body cast.

JS

helionaut

UD products are almost always worth the most among products on a the same "tier". Personally, I don't see why. In football, Contenders has proven to be a solid product every year, particularly when you look at factors like the quantity and features on the Brady cards. Beckett reflects that, and ebay at least in a tiny sample proves them out. On 5/6 a raw SPA card sold for $393, while Contenders cards sold for $140 on 5/6, $131 on 5/10, and $164 on 5/13. You could almost buy the three Contenders cards for the one SPA card, and in these cases Beckett is being much more generous to the Contenders card than the SP.

Maybe serial numbering is that important. Who knows how many Contenders cards are out there, even if they are signed? Maybe it's something to do with grading, since SPA cards grade out nicely. BGS shows 18 9.5s and 53 9s out of 170 total graded for SPA, with Contenders having only 1 9.5 and 7 9s out of 62 graded. A PSA 10 SPA sold for $810, a PSA 9 SPA sold for $335 (might as well crack it out, I guess), and a BGS 9 SPA sold for $475. No graded Contenders have sold recently.

Pacific has long been in Beckett's doghouse. Their products get dropped out rather quickly. When Pacific came out with Titanium hockey rookies serial numbered to 70 or whatever, Beckett had a poll to see if the hobby considered them RCs. If cards don't get the RC label, they get overlooked or dismissed by the large group of people who follow Beckett's "guidance." They seem to look for ways to exclude Pacific's product, while looking for ways to prop up UD's (see the Premiere Prospects XRC fiasco).

goodriddance189

<< <i>225 wet maybe! Did you see him get broke in half on that Monday night game? He is one hit away from
holding the clipboard in a full body cast.

JS >>



ala Doug Johnson? i swear, that guy must be made of papier mache

joestalin

yeah I saw those actions, I can't believe that someone would pay almost full book for a card that
had no ink on it. I guess thats Chow nation for you....looking at the bid history on that 393 auction
concludes that there were more than one person ready to shell out big bucks. To think there was a
time when you could pick up a box of 00 SPA for under 70 dollars, Im not sure how much they are
now but there are really only 2 cards worth pulling in the entire set, 3 if you think Lewis is. Thats
seems risky, man I remember back when you could pick up Brady SPA's for 40 bucks, I just can't
see where this demand has come from, there are many many nicer cards than this one...1250
isn't rare, and even if there are 2000 contender Brady's, it should still be worth more....compare
99 SPx autos!! If you can remember back playoff loaded up 2000 with all the European guys, so
most of the pro players have lower print runs, I have never seen a numbered contenders rookie
numbered over 999, you have to think the Contenders Brady is rarer than 1250.

Oh well

Kevin

goodriddance189

SPA sometimes benefits from too much name recognition.

joestalin

Is it SPA or is it beckett? 2000 was an off year for some companies after the 99 fury where products
were loaded with autographs, the prices should reflect.

jS

goodriddance189

a combination of SPA, Beckett, and the collecting public. don't get me wrong, SPA is often the top of the line, especially when they include auto's or patches on the rooks. but stuff like '99 and '00 are overrated. no autos, no jerseys, relatively high print runs, (usually) the top rookie product=overrated. give me a '99 SPx or Contenders, which are better looking and lower print than SPA, any day of the week. same goes for '00. SPx (jsy/auto) and Contenders (auto) are both better investments than SPA. Beckett is a joke, half of their prices are based on speculation and scattered auction results. and the collecting public has been in the mindset that SPA is the top of the line for so long, they don't want to change their opinion. i don't honestly understand how someone could fork over $400 for a non autographed, non jersey Brady, especially when they could have a better looking auto rc for half the price. but that's just me.

Tabe

<< <i>...so you are seeing the press pass autos selling well? Better than the Sage?
>>


In the limited sample of players that I've been following this year, mainly John Navarre, along with last year's products and the 2002 David Carr items, I would say Press Pass definitely outsells Sage. I've picked up two John Navarre Sage Hit Gold Autos /250 this year for less than <$8 each. I've seen Navarre Press Pass Bronze (unnumbered) autos sell for as high as $15. The same holds true for David Carr items, the equivalent Press Pass autograph always sells for at least slightly more than Sage/Sage Hit.

In talking with lots of people on the Beckett boards, the general consensus is that the Press Pass autographs this year are far superior to Sage Hit. The autos are on the cards themselves and the design is a lot better. Given that, and the generally equal level of respect for the two companies, it's no surprise Press Pass is outselling Sage Hit on Ebay this year.

Tabe
www.tabe.nu

lamar

The biggest problems I see with Beckett include:

1) the first pricing on a product is almost always too high. they seem to get the values from the first days the product is live and before it settles. The Manning auto might be selling for $200 right away, but then settles as $150 or less, especially after Topps, Fleer, Playoff and Upper Deck release their products and now it's one of many Manning autos out there. At this point, they kill the product with a flurry of down arrows. Many collectors see the down arrows, think the product is cold and then the prices sink further. All this could have been avoided if they had just been a little conservative on the front end.

2) The common and lower level rookie prices. They always price these crap rookies numbered 2999 way too high. Commons are $10 or so and they sell on ebay for 50 cents. How does this help the hobby? The same can be said of jersey cards that sell for a quarter and are priced at $10.

helionaut

It must be the brand, and the Beckett pricing becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Brady has an SPx RC, and it's numbered to 1350. Yes, 1350 is more than 1250, but the difference in prices is not proportional. A PSA 10 SPX sold for $325, less than half what a PSA 10 SPA sold for. Both cards are nicer looking than Contenders, though, even if they lack the auto.

TheRoach

How about last month's Baseball Beckett (I didn't get the new one yet). '98 Leaf Rookies and Stars. J.D Drew up to $60 on a losing team, and Magglio Ordonez, probably one of the most desirable free agents next year, still at $40. Do I even need to compare careers? I know that some may be based on hype, but it is still absurd! I even think that Carlos Lee is a steal at $12. You could probably get one for half that on Ebay. I think it should be worth more even though he is struggling a bit this year.


Ahhhh, back to what I like to talk about!!!!!



TheRoach

joestalin

Roach

If I remember right, the Drew was part of the 1:8 rookie odds and the Magglio was part of the 1:2...I tell
you that 98 Leaf R&S product had the most increadable prospect, but none of those guys have really
done a whole lot...remember when like 8 of the cards from that set were over 100 bucks. I still
remember the day going into Kmart seeing this stuff..probably 40 packs at 3.99 a piece and thinking
to myself, thats way too much! Retail blaster boxes in 99 were going for 80 bucks! Thats 50 dollars
profit!

Oh well

Kevin

TheRoach

<< <i>Roach

If I remember right, the Drew was part of the 1:8 rookie odds and the Magglio was part of the 1:2...I tell
you that 98 Leaf R&S product had the most increadable prospect, but none of those guys have really
done a whole lot...remember when like 8 of the cards from that set were over 100 bucks. I still
remember the day going into Kmart seeing this stuff..probably 40 packs at 3.99 a piece and thinking
to myself, thats way too much! Retail blaster boxes in 99 were going for 80 bucks! Thats 50 dollars
profit!

Oh well

Kevin >>



What do I know? I knew they were SP, but I didn't know that some were tougher than others. Magglio should still be a lot more just based on the last 4 years alone. Magglio has been consistently good, while Drew has been consistently bad and injury prone for the most part. Thanks Kevin!



TheRoach

joestalin

Talk about bad luck I pulled the Sosa/Mac Checklist 3 times but never touched the Drew or Glaus! Still
have my Kapler and Millwood

Kevin