I just don't get the marketing of the card companies.
qualitycards
Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭
For 13 years I had a card store and carried all to major brand of sports cards. In fact when Upper Deck came out in '89 I gave them a shot and my companies account # was under 50. So I guess that makes me "old school". Saturday I rec'd my 2004 Fleer Flair NFL order form as I occasionally still buy their products and I have a card stand at a local mall so new product is indeed welcome. Anyway, my wholesale direct price from Fleer was listed at $78 per box, and I have an allocation of 4 boxes. Although a bit steep (I thought), I figured that the rookie crop had some impact players and I would take the plunge. And as I was filling the form out I noticed that each box contained ONE pack! Thats Right! 1 pack at my direct price of $78, and my 4 pack allocation for a mere $312.00 - What in the name of Goudey, should I charge the public? At a 33% markup, it will cost someone $100+ per a pack of cards. And with that large rookie crop, whats the % of anyone finding Eli Manning in a 4 pack case. I know that many packs cost more then a $100 per, but to me its just unsettling, just crazy! And to think when Upper Deck came out and the suggested retail price per pack was $.99 to $1.29, many thought that they couldn't compete w/ Topps, Fleer & Donruss that were selling at 1/2 to 1/3 of that. I guess a kid who wants a pack will have to use a months worth of his money from a paper route to buy a pack!...jay
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will come. Collectors have proved time and time again that they will buy junk. Fleer jumping
on board the high dollar pack wagon is a joke, they have nothing to offer, except common
jersey, dead-end redemptions and poor customer service, none the less people will buy them
for 100 and probably 120. Im sure you are not alone in your amazment, I really wish that I could
see the paperwork that dealers get from the companies, its getting harder and harder to nail
down exactly what is in a product. Topps skirts the issue with TBD playoff too. Of course if you
are a dealer or a customer once you rip it open all bets are off to whats inside. Im amazed at
what poor customer service there is in the hobby, if I bought a toaster at target and it was
broke when I opened it Target would get me another, very few dealers would do the same. I have
opened short boxes right in front of a dealer and they didn't do anything.
Rest assured if you order it they will come.......but that really isn't the issue is it?
JS
Seriously, it seems like more and more card companies are advocating "wax gambling" with products like this. At least in a large box or case you get minutes or even hours of excitement but here it's all or nothing in 10 sec or less.
Just my two cents,
Brian
Now many of the new products are offering the luck of the draw to get that low #'d patch card, and the regular cards seem to be just fillers. To be thrown away w/ the wrappers.
STALIN said "order it and they will come"
I'm not so sure! I think that some of the card companies are running out of promotions and novelties to sell their cards. I wonder who will be left standing in 5 & 10 years, and I wonder if the 10 year old who can't afford the product today will buy it when he's 20 and has some money...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
ordering it, once that happens the companies could care less if it sells, its the dealers problem
now! Do dealers actually say no? It seems like the companies are getting away with making
junk because dealers just order everything. I can't remember the last time I went to a show or
a card shop and didn't see several boxes of 2002 or 03 fleer products in the bargin bin. Again I
ask you as a dealer, when was the last time a fleer product was on fire? When was the last time
a fleer card was a one guys hottest rookie card? I still wonder why fleer is around, they took a
complete year off from putting autographs in their products and were still able to sell products,
and they sold at 5-9 dollars a pack too! Jersey edition this jersey edition that, so predictable...
Jersey/Autos odds 1:5 or 1:8, except the autos odds by themselves were 1:200 if you could
even pull an auto.
Please tell me why you still order fleer products, Im curious.
Thanks
Kevin
<< <i>Do dealers actually say no? >>
I betcha alot do! Who can afford to buy every product for every sport made by Topps and their off shoots Topps Chrome, Bowman, Finest etc.. Fleer/Skybox, Donrus/Leaf, Upper Deck etc... Its mind numbing, that ever 2 or 3 days a new and expensive product is being offered to dealers. I guess many must sell the slow movers way below cost to buy the new & improved hot product. And as CTSOXFAN stated he paid $450 for 16 cards, thats lunacy. Whats the next hot concept, a card pack for $250 that has 1 card in it a 1/1? Thats great if you land LeBron, Carmelo, Kobe, Shaq or about a dozen others, I'd just feel sorry for the buyers who lands Melvin Ely...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Milk over $4.00 per per gallon in many places.
Health and College costs continiue to skyrocket.
etc., etc., etc.
Welcome to Stagflation ala the 1970's but worse because Americans are maxed out to the limit on credit cards. Small salary increases with humongous inflation and you think people are going to dole out $100+ per pack for modern crap when they have trouble putting food on the table? Get outta here!!!
Got Gold or Silver? You are going to need it.
I think all of us vintage collectors should boycott the newer stuff to where they can finally save relics, not flood the market with to much garbage, and bring prices down again so little Billy across the street can start collecting cards.
Argh, what they are doing to this hobby these days is pathetic!
Jeff
(ps - although I did buy a heritage box earlier this year for $70, but my honeymoon on that is over)
IT'S ALL JUST STUPID...to me.
However, people must be buying this stuff. Why?
I still think .99 a pack is about the right price for 10 to 12 cards on a product that isn't stuffed with glitz and glitter inserts. Too bad Topps didn't do this with their regular issue, as opposed to creating Topps Total and Bazooka.
Erik
<< <i>but to me its just unsettling, just crazy! >>
Jay
What also can be unsettling is when the person opens the pack and is unhappy with their 100$ purchase and then proceeds to kill the messenger; you could lose a customer over this even though you are just providing a product/service!
Mike
product! I would think it would be great if some company actually put out a product that was so
limited that would would guarenteed to get your money back, but they don't do that.
You only have to look at the configuration of ultimate collection, which is over 100/pack....it still
includes about 30 rookies! Out of those only 2 are sought after enough to get your money back.
Thats 38 rookies times 250 or sometimes higher! Thats a lot of dead packs
I have problems with what I call "dead packs" I think that 50/pack and 100/pack products serve a
purpose. Many people are opening boxes and buying packs just to chase one hit, if those packs are
10 dollars a pack and they are chasing one or two packs per box and you can really spend 80-100
bucks and have nothing! If you know the big pull is in one pack then you will pay the 100 bucks
up front.
Of course I have always gone to the shop buying out of fresh boxes, I like the idea of hitting
a big pull for only 20 bucks. Take a look at this years first football product. Sage hit has 30 packs
per box, there are 5 autos per box and one jersey, that leaves 24 packs that are dead....if you buy
a box, you will open 24 packs of junk.....why? At 4 dollar a pack almost 100 bucks of waste
guarenteed!
There is something that has NEVER been tried in the hobby and that is truly a limited edition product, Im
not talking about numbering rookies to 250 or 100, but maybe 500 total boxes across the entire run...
maybe ship them out randomly to dealers who can sell them to their best customers (of course how many
would?) Give the customer something truly valuable, sure the company might not make any money but
wouldn't that say a lot in the hobby?? Why not offer something like this once a year or so?
500 dollars a pack for a 1/1 would be an instant sell out, but the companies wouldn't make any money on
those....no dead packs.
Great Topic
Kevin
The product you are describing is 04 Donruss Timeless Treasures baseball. There is one pack per tin and you are guaranteed 1 auto/GU card #'d/100 to less than 100 per tin. I have to agree that the prices on wax are getting to be outrageous....I also will admit that I bought one of these tins for fun. I pulled a Cal Ripken auto/GU bat card #2/9 which I could easily sell for $300+ on E-bay but probably will keep for my collection. It's basically a lottery for people with discretionary income to blow.
I do have to agree with Kevin that I would avoid Fleer and UD like the plague. I got burned on a few too many of their products in the past and have completely boycotted their stuff since.
Ken
<< <i>500 dollars a pack for a 1/1 would be an instant sell out, but the companies wouldn't make any money on >>
Kevin
That's just it - the "dead packs" pay for the product and someone else loses the lottery. Someone a few days ago felt one shouldn't criticize or characterize the purchases of others who have the money - I think the intent is not to single anyone out but to just discuss where our money goes and the value we are getting. Me personally, my whole heritage budget for each year is 400$ which I always run over. Down the road, I would like to be one of those guys who can drop 100-500 on a pack and not sweat like Aknot for a few days.
Personally, I like the glitz and glitter of these products but as Kevin says - a few 'dead packs' in a row and I would be singing a different tune.
Mike
The "cost" to produce the card.
Lets use Dan Marino. If UD signs a "contract" with him they would be able to produce 3 cards of him bearing his likeness and one card bearing his likeness and his autograph.
Now do you actually think Dan is getting paid on average what the card companies are charging us? That one of one Dan signed only cost the company a "standard" fee for an autograph.
What makes it cost so much is "x" amount of players being paid "x" amount of dollars for their likeness and "scripts".
YET I still find it hard to believe the cost to make 500 cards is more then the cost of 1000 cards.
The companies are taking us "to the bank".
The people that can "afford" this crap are setting the price for the singles that come from this "limited" crap.
Now if a card company would like to step up to the plate and explain to me how it can charge well above cost for an Item that can not be a "collectiable" "limited" item unless guaranteed, feel free Im all ears.
Cards (as someone said) is in sense a "gamble" and should be governed by the state. Think of the benefit the schools and roads would get. (im kidding...kinda)
Joestalin in order for a card company to make money on a 1/1 they can:
Pay the "athlete" the fee for their auto and likeness. What maybe a couple hundred (if that) for a well known? and sell 3 packs.
BAM!! The company gets their money back.
The card companies, like any other business, need to turn a profit; either by selling lots of product cheap, or less quantity at a higher cost per. Think back to the late 80's / early 90's and most collector's would prefer the latter option. When card companies see how much people are willing to pay for cards on the secondary market (and they don't pocket any of this), they know they can shift some of those dollars away from the dealers/collectors and to themselves. Call it greed if you want, but that's American business. If the card companies couldn't turn a profit, none of us would be collecting. The pack prices will continue to go up as long as people are buying them. It is interesting to read some comments about "high" and "outrageous" pack prices, yet the person still buys them, so it still isn't too high for them.
Donruss/Playoff sells out of all of their high dollar packs.....people love to bust this stuff.
Basically a $100 pack will give you the type of "hits" as regular box of cards. The only difference is that you do not have carry around the hundreds of base cards...which, many times, get thrown away.