The Legal Defense Fund needs some serious help
K6AZ
Posts: 9,295 ✭
As you all know, a group of 46 collectors and dealers were sued by the Hagers and ACG. Most of the dealers are covered as far as their legal defense goes. I have been graciously covered by a couple of donors. However, there are many defendants who were named for no other reason than to create discontent and trouble. These people are not covered by any insurance policies, and are now facing a pretty stiff legal bill which they can not afford to pay.
We have received the first legal bill, and it is steep. Even considering what is currently in the fund, we are short $12,000. I know this is a lot of money, but if enough people help out with a small amount, it can be covered. Contributions can be made here:
Lawsuit Defense Contributions
We have received the first legal bill, and it is steep. Even considering what is currently in the fund, we are short $12,000. I know this is a lot of money, but if enough people help out with a small amount, it can be covered. Contributions can be made here:
Lawsuit Defense Contributions
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Comments
The same reason that we cannot get tort reform in this country applies to the way all these type cases work. Judges just do not punish their fellow lawyers if they lose a case.
You are also becoming obsessed and dragging us all down in your mire of self loathing.
Don't respond to tropical. He's a clear troll who's just trying to stir things up. As of this writing, he's had 6 posts and all six are either obnoxious (5) or blank (1). He even PM'ed me last night with an insulting comment.
Someone should tell Carol or Otis about this guy.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Collecting Morgans in Any Grade
<< <i>Tropical, I'll mail you a rope if you have the chair... >>
...I'll donate a bullet, if he has a gun...
<<
<< <i>As you all know, a group of 46 collectors and dealers were sued by the Hagers and ACG. Most of the dealers are covered as far as their legal defense goes. I have been graciously covered by a couple of donors. However, there are many defendants who were named for no other reason than to create discontent and trouble. These people are not covered by any insurance policies, and are now facing a pretty stiff legal bill which they can not afford to pay.
We have received the first legal bill, and it is steep. Even considering what is currently in the fund, we are short $12,000. I know this is a lot of money, but if enough people help out with a small amount, it can be covered. Contributions can be made here:
Lawsuit Defense Contributions >>
<<
Ed Kelley, a well known and respected dealer, posted this message to the RCC newsgroup this afternoon. He give me permission to post it here. Here it is verbatim. He makes vital points about the implications of this lawsuit.
On Sun, 16 May 2004 14:28:36 -0400, "Ed Kelley" <ed-kelley@comcast.net> wrote:
>All
>
>I have never made a disparaging remark about ASA or its principles. Heck,
>I've never said anything at all about ASA or its principles and I never will
>for the exact reason these people find themselves under attack.
>
>There is a much larger principle at stake here though then what most people
>realize. While some comments made by the defendants were indeed over the
>top, the fact remains that a serious precedent will be set if the defendants
>lose. If such occurs, then no one will be safe warning unsuspecting
>collectors about unscrupulous dealers, over priced coins, over graded coins
>etc.
>
>In fact, the unsuspecting collector will become permanent prey for dishonest
>dealers who sell a few thousand dollars worth of coins for tens of thousands
>of dollars to little ole ladies who spend their IRA money in hopes of a
>windfall down the road. No one will be safe warning unsuspecting ebayers
>that the coin they are willing to spend thousands of dollars on is a fake.
>No one will be safe warning the public that one of the large advertisers in
>numismatic magazines sells cleaned coins as uncirculated coins. Bottom line,
>no one will feel safe making any comments about any dealer or coin
>transaction ever again for fear of being sued, whether the remarks are
>warranted or not.
>
>Dealers have more to lose than anyone if the defendants lose since no one
>will dare assist or protect collectors from unscrupulous dealers. In the end
>the entire hobby will be damaged and collectors will quit the hobby in
>droves over time as they continue to get ripped off. With that said, I
>challenge all ethical dealers to step up to the plate and publicly announce
>their support for this group of people and also contribute to their defense.
>I myself have contributed $500 to this cause and I further challenge all
>dealers to dig deep into their pockets and do the same or better. A stand
>must be made for the sake of the hobby.
>Ed Kelley - Proprietor
>http://www.kelleyscoins.com
>Kelley's Coins
>PO Box 501225
>Atlanta, GA 31150
I would like to add that once served, even if a defendant feels a case has no merit or contains charges that have absolutely nothing to do with the defendant, he or she cannot simply ignore the service of a summons. Failure to respond in proper legal form within the days proscribed will result in a summary judgment against that defendant, and unless the service is defective, this can have horrendous financial implications for the defendant who chooses to ignore the complaint.
All defendants pariticipating have each made a sizeable retainer deposit with our law firm and in addition, have received a legal bill for the first 30 day's legal expenses for almost double that retainer amount. This is serious money and not all defendants have the werewithal to pay the charges. It is vital that we allow this case to proceed. It's VITAL for the industry. Once the ANA Legal Defense fund is set up, they can help with these fees as they are able, but for now the legal charges must be paid immediately.
For those that feel passionate about this issue and the implications of losing such a case can have on numismatics, I urge you to dig in and help with the Defense Fund.
Thank you all, and I especially thank YOU, Ed!
Ira Stein
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
One can only hope and believe that what goes around comes around.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>Thank you all, and I especially thank YOU, Ed!
Ira Stein >>
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Ed and everyone else who has made a donation to help or who has supported this. I know it has very much helped me personally. Yes, I am in this about a year's coin budget already but the help I have received has made it so I have not had to sell any of my collection...and, believe me, that is very much appreciated. I also know for a fact that others have been helped too and are also very thankful. I am sure there is nothing I will be able to do to properly show my thanks to the many unknown contributers out there but I know that I am in your debt.
Another person I would like to publically thank is k6az. Most people will never know how much he has helped and how much he has busted his butt for people like me in the last two months.
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As of right now, we are only at about 5% of what we need to raise. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated.
What's the total legal expense to date?
But, to be straight (and you can ask Greg Hansen or Frattlaw or the other lawyers around here), the Hager's suit is not at all complex. It should not take a lawyer very long to get "up to speed" on a case that revolves around a group of people allegedly defaming the Hagers by saying things purportedly adverse to their business. It's not like defamation is something new in the law. It seems like many of the 46 ought to have their components decided on a motion for summary judgment.
And something "tropical" said deserves note. Most or at least many courts require some alternative dispute resolution (mediation, arbitration, mini-trials and other accelerated ways to resolve cases) before you can even get a trial. Sometimes, a mediation session on a case like this will wind up with the mediator suggesting that an apology issue as a resolution to the case (of course, the parties have to agree to the suggested resolution). Has anybody explored just saying "I'm sorry" for the comments that were inappropriate and just sending everybody on their merry way. Most lawyers including me enjoy litigating a worthy case but to me this is a case that should be resolved in a conference room.
Just out of curiousity, where was the suit filed? State or Federal court? What is the amount in controversy?
Where was the suit filed?
Can you tell us how much you are being sued for?
Thanks in advance.
Thank you.
And as a purported lawyer, you should know plaintiffs don't have to quantify damages -- and in fact the vast majority do not, because it's a stupid tactical mistake to do so at such an early juncture of the case.
"How much" is such a rookie question it calls into serious question the claims made here.
I also seem to have trouble viewing the complaint link. It tries to open an Adobe file, but then I get an error message.
Thank you.
<< <i>Another person I would like to publically thank is k6az. Most people will never know how much he has helped and how much he has busted his butt for people like me in the last two months. >>
I'll second that Stujoe. Eric has been wonderful in this situation. For me he has been a voice of reason. Without him I would be in disaster mode. Like you, I hope someday to be able to repay him for all of the work he has done for us.