Did Grading Companies Change Collectors' Grading Standards?

SDavid

I had a hiatus from the card industry from 1989 until about mid-2003. I barely looked at a card during that time span. Naturally, at first I was amazed at the numerous changes (like what the @#%@ were these jerseys and how could people ship them for $1.50, lol), but mostly I was surprised at the characteristics in cards that gained so much importance.

Back in the day, I can't remember anyone caring too much whether greg jefferies' rookies had 50/50 centering or whether an '85 McGwire or Clemens had a print spot. And a lot of the old vintage cards now graded as "ex-mint" for various reasons were considered at least near mint back then...or so I thought at the time.

Basically, my question is whether collectors' preferences regarding condition were reflected or shaped by the top grading companies. I mean, did people just start caring so much about centering/immaculate surfaces/etc. because the grading companies judged cards based on those characteristics and graded cards sold better on the internet...or did collectors start looking for those characteristics on their own before psa et al. became so prominent in the industry?

Obviously, I know that SOME collectors were this particular about their cards all along...I'm talking about my perceived changes in the collecting population at large.

Aknot

errr for me on a "collecting" side no. As long as the card looked sharp and I needed it I would "trade" for it at a loss if need be or buy it at its percieved value (usually Beckett somewhere between Hi/Lo)

Now in a "business" since a graded card gives the seller a lot more"clout" and the buyer more "security". You are "promised" that the card is not altered in anyway. It is a good as the grade given to it. Now should that raise the price and "collectibility"? Sure. But some of the prices it has driven it to is a little skewed. But those prices are supposedly based on "market" value. So if 5 people buy a Gem Mint 10 card at $5000 that is supposedly going to be its price. (if there are only 5 of that grade) (is that right?)

I mean Beckett and the others had a scale with centering, surface damage, corners etc. to go by. The graders just "pushed" it to another level.

estang

Very good question and observations. I'd say that for some the grading standards haven't changed, but for the masses it has. Professionally graded cards has just raised the conscience level of everyone in the hobby on how and what to look for in a Near Mint or better card.

I know it has raised my awareness level a great deal higher than before. It has made me appreciate a Nm/MT or Mint vintage card in a way that didn't cross my mind before. Sure, I knew some cards were better than others, but so much was based in hobby publications (namely Beckett) on Near Mint grades and their pricing, that it just left the masses feeling that Near Mint was good enough. Now for many, Near Mint is not good enough when they've re-entered the hobby and/or gotten into graded card collecting.

Even those dealers or collectors that had always had an eye for the Nm/MT or Mint vintage raw cards have probably learned a great deal from graded card market.

My final point is that we've all garnered a greater appreciation for those Nm/MT and Mint vintage cards, and how much more rare and collectible they've become.

toppsgun

Grading has effectively set a new standard. After collecting since 1990 and using Beckett guidelines (remember the blown up pictures of corner wear in Beckett, explaining grade differentials), and my own experience sorting through thousands of cards, I became very comfortable with EX-MT, NM and MINT. Here is my grading scale:

There is no such thing as GEM MINT. Mint is Mint, period. If it's Mint, it IS a 10.

NM-MT is an "in-between" grade. It appears MINT to the naked eye, but under magnification, flaws are discovered on the corners. Or perhaps the centering is 65/35 or so.

Near Mint has some obvious (to the naked eye) flaws, but nothing serious. You don't need a 10x loupe to tell if a card falls to Near Mint.

EX-MT has characteristics of both MINT and Excellent. A significant flaw (scrunched corner, surface scratch or o/c) that prevents NM, but many other features are MINT. Back in the 70's, I'm told, there were only three collector grades: MINT, EX-MT and EX.

Based on my analysis, the grading industry is off by one grade on almost everything they grade. They are too harsh. Black lights and 10x loupes overstate the flaws. This is an interesting business strategy, though. Make the grades collectors want barely attainable, but most of the time, just out of reach. We figure, with just a little more training, we can submit the cards that get the higher grade.

For me, a set of PSA 8's are pretty darn close to MINT. PSA 7's are better than NM if you picked cards with good gloss and/or eye appeal. Which is why 7's are such a good bargain and will see the next major wave of price appreciation, as the 8's and 9's dry up.

Edit to add:
10 - MINT
9 - NM-MT
8-NM
7-EXMT
6-EX+
5-EX
4-VG/EX
3-VG
2-F/G
1-Poor

Fabfrank

I have to agree somewhat. Grading companies didn't so much change the standards, but rather made us aware that not every mint card is really mint. The truly exceptional cards received their recognition (Gem Mint 10's, Mint 9's) and those that didn't quite make the cut but were strong examples received the 8's.
One thing for sure, I wouldn't want to go back to the old days before grading.

Spigrimace

I think it's good because it kept demand up post-late 80's/early 90's hysteria as a near-mint card such as an 8 is, generally speaking, about the same price it was as a raw nr-mt card 12 years ago while grading companies enabled a collector to vie for creme-de-la-creme 9's and 10's that will make cards that were overproduced from that hysteria age, find some worth. Reputable Grading also saves the dolts who paid nr-mt money 12 years ago for raw cards that would only grade say a 5 or 6.

DeutscherGeist

I have been collecting since the 1980's, and its not the standards that changed, but people are more aware what "Mint" really means. I have always been critical of a card's condition and when dealers try to pass off a card as "mint" it usually did not meet the true definition of "Mint." I would get a lot of dirty looks and even ridiculed by some. I am glad for third party grading, since it has vindicated something I have been practicing all along. I would love to see all those particular guys from the pre-grading era now try and tell me what is "mint." Bunch of idiots.

helionaut

I'd have to say they changed mine. I look at a lot of my cards now and think,"That would be an 8, that would be lucky to be an 8, that's a solid 10..." Yet when I bought them these same cards all fell within the same grade, which was "acceptable to me." I've found myself passing over a lot of cards lately that a year or two ago I would've purchased without a second thought. I'm talking mainly about modern cards, like ones I need for recent sets or Frank Thomas cards, for which I've never been overly concerned with condition as their values are so flat. But even for older cards I'm becoming more choosey. My evaluation of a card as compared to the traditional hobby grades have changed by becoming more strict and in tune with the grading companies, which I think are stricter in general than most collectors and dealers. But they've also changed as to what I will buy at all. A 2004 Frank Thomas card with 70/30 centering doesn't cut it for me anymore.

1420sports

I remember waiting for the new CPU (Card Prices Update) to arrive every month. It was a b/w guide produced on newspaper stock and it classified cards (I think) as Good, Very Good, Excellent, and Mint.

Before PSA, I still used those measures and basically still do. I stopped buying PSA 9's for 50 when a PSA 8 was 5 - it didn't make sense to me. I collect for fun, and not as an investment so others may not share the same view.

Gem 10, Perfect 10, Pristine whatever all are BULL 10. Some 8's are the same thing.

uniship

I remember the CPU - that was the bible prior to Beckett in the early 80's.

Stone193

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In essence, IMO, it has heightened the awareness by people to Adhere to the Grading Standards enforced by the Impact grading companies.

Also, for me, it has made mail order purchasing potentially less stressful. However, I understand that ebay may be different, but if I were to purchase a card from 707 e.g. and received it and didn't like it - not disagreeing with the grade but just didn't like it, I would like to be able to return it on my dime.
Just my take on graded and all sales final in regular retail sales.
Mike