Is Ending An eBay Auction Early a "Theft of Services"?

braddick

A Thread on this forum caught my attention and got me to thinking. I've lately been of the staunch belief that ending an eBay auction early, although unacceptable if bids have been placed, is alright if there is NO bid in play.
Now I question if this is even ethical. Afterall, it was the eBay forum that allowed your item to receive the needed attention it did to supply a counteroffer, outside of eBay. If the auction is then ended and the coin sold, eBay is out the fees they would have earned had the auction been allowed to run. For example, a tough, attractive coin is placed on eBay and a buyer offers, via email, after seeing the coin on eBay and reading your description of it, a strong offer. The auction is killed and the coin sold. The buyer does well as he doesn't have to risk paying more in a true auction format and is guaranteed the coin. Hee also receives the coin faster, not having to wait for the auction to end. The Seller does well as he receives the price he requested without having to pay eBay fees.
In a perfect, moral world, is this proper?
Even without a bid, should auctions placed on eBay be cancelled for gain?

wondercoin

Pat: I believe ending an ebay auction early where no bids have been placed is NOT a "theft of services" for these (and other) reasons:

1. EBAY RULES SAY IT IS FINE TO DO.

2. The seller still loses the listing fee and any added service fees. For example, if I feature an auction for $19.95 (which I often do) and I shut the auction early with no bids having been placed, I lose $19.95 plus listing fees as well.

3. It appears ebay has dealt with this in whole or in part by raising prices on listing fees, adding fees for reserve auctions and not permitting one to get their premium feature fees back under any circumstances.

Not to mention, ebay stock is around an ALL-TIME HIGH, supporting the notion that they have not been suffering in this "morally perfect world".

Wondercoin

badger

A compromise position would be if EBay allowed a Buy-it-Now alternative after listing. The agreed price could be entered in BIN mode. The timing of the entry could be coordinated with the buyer. The auction ends early, buyer gets the benefit of ending early, EBay gets the fees, and seller maintains compliance with EBay and protection per EBay guidelines.

nederveit

Not to mention that e-bay is now off the hook for any problems with the transaction. And if your buyer uses PayPal, there may be some fees there (which e-bay gets since they own PayPal).

A good question though, it made me think....

pontiacinf

I think Mitch said it...you still pay the ebay listing fees, how ever much that maybe.

braddick

<< <i>I think Mitch said it...you still pay the ebay listing fees, how ever much that maybe. >>

Yes, I get that- but the eBay listing fees may be extremely small, especially if the coin is listed at a minimum amount. eBay, in a sense, advertised your coin to the potential bidder who now, instead of bids on eBay, cuts through the process and buys, off site, cutting eBay out of their share of the total cost of the coin.

And, again, I'm not asking if it is "lawful" but rather, ethical.

coinguy1

Pat,

I think it's unethical and dishonest, IF the seller does it in violation of Ebay rules/policies - as in the example of listing a coin at "no reserve" but ending the sale prematurely (not for one of the reasons allowed by Ebay but) merely because it has not achieved a desired bid level/price - "fee avoidance". Unfortunately for Ebay, as best I can tell, they have no way to determine whether sellers are ending sales prematurely for legitimate/allowed reasons or not.

wondercoin

One of the very reasons listed by ebay to shut down an auction early is that the coin is "no longer available for sale". Hence, IMHO, if the coin is sold privately (e.g. at a coin show while an ebay auction is up and running), it is perfectly fine to shut down an ebay auction early. It is "slam dunk" both ethical and honest in this example I believe. I simply draw the line where bids have been placed on ebay. I will not shut them down in such a case even if I could make more money from another venue sale.

Wondercoin

coinguy1

<< <i>One of the very reasons listed by ebay to shut down an auction early is that the coin is "no longer available for sale". Hence, IMHO, if the coin is sold privately (e.g. at a coin show while an ebay auction is up and running), it is perfectly fine to shut down an ebay auction early. It is "slam dunk" both ethical and honest in this example. >>

Mitch, I agree with you on that point. But, I suspect a good number of sellers are less than honest about the coin no longer being available for sale, when in reality, it didn't meet their price and they later simply list it for sale again on Ebay.

wondercoin

"Mitch, I agree with you on that point. But, I suspect a good number of sellers are less than honest about the coin no longer being available for sale, when in reality, it didn't meet their price and they later simply list it for sale again on Ebay."

Mark: That is a fair point you have made.

I was thinking today - if ebay wanted to, they could simply require that any coin posted on their site for sale is NOT permitted to be offered elsewhere will the auction is under way. The ball is really in their court on the subject - after all, they do make all the rules

Wondercoin

jimtre

There was a member here who put a Toned Franklin half up ( I was high bidder) and ended the auction early saying there was an error in the listing. It was immediately put back up (I again bid on it) and again was ended early for the same reason as the first time.

I didn't follow it anymore.

But I no longer bid on her coins.

Jim

braddick

"No longer available for sale..." That could mean the coin is no longer available as it was sold at a coin show instead of "it's-been-sold-via-the-eBay-auction-listing". Probably eBay doesn't make an issue of it because it would be impossible to enforce, but that doesn't make it ethical.

Lane Splitting is done all the time by motorcycles on the freeway and although it is unsafe it is NOT illegal as it would be almost impossible to enforce. The above strikes me as being in the same arena of thought.

babboonbobo2

Another ethical question.
A seller lists an item that you would really like and need but the auction ends with NO bids.
You are doing reserch on closed auctions to get prices realized when you notice this auction.
You contact the seller to see if it will be relisted or if it is still for sale. They make you an excellent offer!
DO YOU ACCEPT OR DECLINE???
I have ran into this a couple times.

solid

I simply draw the line where bids have been placed on ebay. I will not shut them down
in such a case even if I could make more money from another venue sale.

Mitch - I applaud your position in this regard. I also believe that once there are bids on
an auction, it should be allowed to run it's course. The only possible exception I would
allow is when there has been a truly relevant error made in the listing.

To allow someone else to purchase a coin after it has received bids, even if it is totally
unrelated to ebay, is doing a disservice to the bidders who may have spent their valuable
time researching your coin, or not making another purchase so as to insure they would
have funds available for your coin if they were the eventual winner.

Ken

pontiacinf

well theres plenty of good points here, and I again applaud pat for making my brain hurt

Its a question only eBay could answer I guess...I mean are they harmed by this practice, I think not...I think they are more zooted by fake listings, subpar items that run people off, the Star trek pirated DVDS that i found by mistake

Stuff like that turns me off, and if I didnt have good exps. I-E first time buyer Id be gone like the wind...I think that hurts them more than the occasional pulling of an item...but as i said in my original post of someone asking me to do so which by the way, I wouldve gotten 100.00 more than the coin actually sold for, is against what "I" believe in...people have given me that 100% feedback for a reason, and even if it be for personal profit I still won't compromise my values, even though it wouldnt have hurt me.

raycyca

Hello Pat! Are oyu talking about the 78-D PCI rainbow toned Ike that just ended 1/2 hour before the true auction's end? Was that because it was only at about $4 and didn't cover grading fees? Because that seller does it more than once? I have about a dozen E-bayers I avoid vecause of that. When you contact E-bay after noticing this many times with the same seller, they send you a canned response that they will look into it. Then comes another repky they couldn't prove anything and the case is closed. They don't seem at all interested because the same sellers keep coming back and E-bay gets their fees. Even though it's only a small fe, multiply that times hundreds of thousands times per day and they make a LOT of money. It takes too much time to look into these problems and they can't really enforce the policy/fees. Even if they did, the seller would change his/her handle to continue the same. I've been lucky more times than not and if you live in smallville, USA, E-bay is a good thing.

acmesalesinc

I know that that action happens by the minute on the "BAY". I know of a paticular type 2 1972 Ike that fell from a seller into the hands of one of the members of this board recently after about a day on the "BAY". PCGS MS-65. The only reason I know about it is I own the one that the guy culled from his set after he bought it. I don't blame the buyer, He's just looking out for #1. I personally have never stopped an auction early. Ending the sale early like the idiot seller on the type 2, didnt realize the actual value of the item. If someone tries to get you to stop the auction early, he's looking to take advantage of you. Its just not on coins, but in every category. Oh and p.s. ebay has their own built in protection so you really cant tell how much it goes on. The auctions that are ended early dont end up in the COMPLETED ITEMS, because the auction was never completed, so its very hard to tell how much it really happens. So remember CAVEAT EMPTOR! and CAVEAT EMPTOR REVERSED FOR SELLERS!

GRANDAM

Greg,

In the Coin Business two things make a guy successful:

#1 is KNOWLEDGE

#2 is TIMING

When you combine KNOWLEDGE & TIMING sometimes you get LUCKY. When you get LUCKY sometimes you can get a BARGAIN!

GrandAm

pontiacinf

well once again I need to thank pat...now wheres the percocet?