A Serious Discussion Concerning PR70DCAM Lincoln Cents

wondercoin

With all the "hoopla" and public uproar concening the "infamous" 1963 PR70DCAM Lincoln Cent, what was seldom reported over the past year was the fact that nearly the entire PR70DCAM Lincoln series suffered a massive price correction - upwards of a 78% price correction in the case of a date I quoted out tonight (and another Proof Lincoln I sold today on ebay was sold at around 30% of the 2004 FUN SHOW PRICE - that sale was around just 100 days ago)! Consider the 1986(s) Lincoln Cent in PCGS-PR70DCAM. At the 2003 FUN SALE, the coin fetched $3,450. But, by the March, 2004 Portland ANA sale, the coin sold at $805 with buyers fee and I quoted the coin out tonight to a collector who asked me about it at $775 (78% off the 2003 FUN SALE level).

Have the Proof Lincolns finally "settled in" at what some might perceive to be "reasonable" levels at this point, such that the series could receive renewed interest? Or, do you believe the "correction" was too severe, or not severe enough? I have personally noticed the interest pick up over the past few weeks at these new price levels with renewed interest by collectors. Your thoughts?

Wondercoin

rainbowroosie

I love perfection and have a fair eye, but consistently culling 69s from 70s is scary business. IMHO, the series (and any series) will be much MORE collectible as the price gap between 69 and 70 closes. Few people can consistently make this distinction and fear of a "small" price error is not nearly as disconcerting to a collector as a "huge" price jump can be.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Mitch,

First there are Proof 70's and then there are imposters masquerading in Proof 70 holders.The 1963 (formerly in a proof 70 holder) became a Proof 64 ?What is your guess as to the populaion of imposters?
I wanted a 1982 in a Proof 70 D Cameo holder in the Portland ANA sale.I bid $2,900 plus the juice and it went for $3,000 plus the juice.The other 1982 Proof 70 D Cameo in the sale went for about $1,000.
Perhaps Buyers are now buying the coin more than the holder as far as proof Lincolns are concerned.
The other fact is the pop has been increasing as of lately.Noticeably so !

Stewart

wondercoin

Stewart: Overall, the Lincolns PCGS has recently slabbed as PR70DCAM's are of excellent quality. They really have a handle on quality control from what I have seen.

Wondercoin

oreville

Either what you guys say or the simple fact that the date 1963 and PCGS don't get along too well whether it be coins or baseball cards.

Heck, everyone has to have a pet peeve with some year or date?????

Ok, Ok sort of OT, but maybe the 1963 date scared the rest of the market for 70RD DCAMS?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Mitch,

I agree that MOSTLY ALL the recent slabbings of Prooof 70 D Cam Lincolns are ok as 70's.What I'm referring to is previously graded proof 70 D Cameos between the years 1973 and 1982.The mint processing as well as the mint packaging caused staining,spotting and clouding.That is why I'm VERY leary of Proof 70's of those years.Even proofs in the 60's and early 70's get cloudy alot of the time.

Stewart

Dennis88

Mitch and Stewart,

I think that people now understand that Proof-70 coins, especially Lincolns are very hard to keep in that lofty grade. Modern proof coins tend to spot, especially copper coins. I also think that people see the problem with these coins, because no one knows how much PF-70 coins are still out there in the original sets. This might be a very low number, but also very high. Just nobody knows it...

Dennis

Cameonut

I guess I have never been much of a fan of the '70s'. In modern proof dcams, most 69dcams run from $10 to $25 or so. You can even make them yourself for about $25. To pay 50 or 100 times this amount for a "perfect" coin just doesn't fit my value equation. Even paying 10 times the 69 dcam price is a bit hard for me to swallow.

Now I do own a few '70s', but all were purchased or made for less than $300 each. The ones I own do not deserve wildly high prices. I suppose in the quest for the ultimate registry set, there are those that place a higher value on these coins - but not me. There are dozens of coins I would rather own when shelling out that kind of money.

Cameonut

Steve

As a collector I wanted a so called "perfect coin" in my collection so three years ago I bought a proof 1992 PCGS DCAM on Ebay for $86. That satisfies my craving for PR70 coins. After having PCGS slab all my Memorial proof coins last year I decided it would be nice to have the last twenty five years in proof 69. So those that I didn't make myself were purchased at very reasonable prices. They look very nice in my collection of proofs. I believe I have been able to acquire a very nice collection of Lincoln coins to enjoy at prices that will NOT fluctuate downward to any significant extent. I enjoy being part of the Registry because I have always strived for completeness and MY satisfaction of the Lincoln cents I own, never on trying to have a collection of the highest graded coins or the most valuable coins. My approach may be different than most of the Registry members, but it certainly allows me to enjoy my coins and this registry and not worry if some future "clouding" on my Lincoln proof will impact my financial future to any significant degree. JMHO. Steve

merz2

I agree with steve on this question.I have no desire for a Perfect coin at the prices realized.My PR69 DCAM's are just fine.Even the PR68 DCAM's don't hurt my feelings one bit.To answer the original question,Yes the prices comong down are where they should be.IMHO

wondercoin

What everyone is saying makes perfect sense. It appears the 1977-date PR70DCAM Lincoln series in particular may have simply got ahead of itself price wise. My read is that now, at todays levels, the series is beginning to look very interesting to collectors again, especially "new" collectors who I have been selling a few coins to recently.

To me personally, I was always a big fan of the proof Memorial series in finest known grades through dates in the mid-1970's, but, quite frankly, never wanted to consider building a complete set because of the "wild" prices on the 1977-date stuff. Heck, I sat in an auction room and watched proof Lincolns from the 1980's command $5,000-$10,000/coin in some cases, if my memory serves me right (some in the 1990's as well I believe commanded that kind of money). That was always the road block to me considering building a set. At these "new" levels, I do believe the set opens up to a much larger audience - I am even eyeing the series now (like a really need a 16th Registry set to work on!)

Wondercoin

DMWJR

I think it is fair to say that you can have a great memorial set without the 70 hoopla. My 59-present set is at number 5 on the current finest list -- with no 70's. Surprisingly enough, I'm not alone. The number 4 set doesn't have any 70's either!

So where are all of these 70DC's hiding???

Personally, I'm working on a few more of the key dates, and then I might start picking up some 70's where the price and the coin are both right.

pontiacinf

while not being a Lincoln collector, as well as not being a collector of alot of series,IMHO you will begin to see alot of lower prices across the board, im not predicting armmagedon, just common sense is starting to prevail. And also maybe could it be that the serious registry guys already have what they need? Not every registry player needs to have top plastic in their set. And I just decided myself Im happy with all 69dcams in my sets. Cost effective and some look nicer than the 70's ive seen.

WalkerGuy

Basic rule that you can't forget when you see unbelievable prices for any coin. It only takes two people to make a market.