PRICES REALIZED UPDATE ON :Which PCGS MS67 1880-S Morgan dollar would you rather have and why? What

coinguy1

These two coins are being offered in a public auction next month - which do you like better? Why? What is your prediction for their prices realized?

Sorry, but results will not be posted until AFTER the sale.

Edited to add: We do not own either coin.


#1)





#2)

CalGold

Looks liek someone's puppy peed on coin 1

CG

ss350camaro

Ahhhh ! The old "tone versus white" question ?

I like the white one the best. That fingerprint on the toner looks bad in my opinion.

Realized Auction price? I have no clue but i'm sure it will be allot more than i can afford

Kriek

I prefer the second one, $850.00

Stuart

Mark: My initial quick reaction answer was going to be the 2nd coin because of the beautiful cameo contrast, and the lovely delicate semi-PL surfaces -- wow what a clean cheek on Miss Liberty!!.

However, upon closer examination of the photos I noticed 3 obvious "reed marks" in a prime focal area on the upper portion of the eagle's breast just under it's neck, which would be totally unacceptable for me to purchase on an MS-67 coin, and which would really bother the heck out of me if it were my coin.

Based upon that assessment, if forced to select one of the 2 coins, I would probably select the top coin (#1) with the toned frosty obv and semi-PL rev. Although I'm not wild about it either, since I prefer more cameo contrasted PL/DMPL Morgans.

I'll guess that Coin #1 will sell for MS-67 Money (~$750) and coin #2 will sell for somewhere between MS-66 & 67 money (~$450)... Although since the market places a 60% grade weighting emphasis on the obverse, I may be surprised how strong the bids are for coin #2...

mgoodm3

Don't want to cover up such a high grade specimen with toning. I would prefer the white one.

JrGMan2004

I like Coin #2... looks Semi-PL...

jbsteven

the second one will sell for over $1500. from the photos it looks like it is semi pl and very close to a 68. I will have to look at that one in person.


first one will hammer at $950


edited to add:

the second one has been show graded which tells me someone has given it a shot at a show for a upgrade.

rainbowroosie

I think JB is going to rig the results!!!!!!!....I like toning, but #2 is nicer.

jbsteven

braddick

<< <i>the second one will sell for over $1500. from the photos it looks like it is semi pl and very close to a 68. I will have to look at that one in person. first one will hammer at $950 edited to add: the second one has been show graded which tells me someone has given it a shot at a show for a upgrade. >>

My thoughts exactly other than adding a bump of $100.00 per coin.

jasbucks

I like coin # 2 too & figure maybe realize 1k+/-
#1 dunno toners

DHeath

I'm with Stuart. That dinger that looks like a necklace on the eagle would put me off, but it sure is an almost beautiful coin. Coin #1 would be my choice, and I figure it'll do $800 and #2 will do $600.

byergo

#2 is drop-dead purrrty! Should hammer for 75% to 100% more than the 1st example (unless the toning is much nicer and more rainbow than pictured).

charley

Coin 2-although high quality strikes are not the exception with this date, the grading services simply donot give credit to a pl/cam appearance for this date. This particular piece is also a vam, and again as usual not mentioned on the holder. Stunning piece-undergraded-$965

Placid

They both suck for 67. I will guess they will be within $50 of each other.

dollardude

These are both beauties!

Jbsteven, how can you tell the second one was show-graded? Is it because the S/N begins with 5?

<< Mark: My initial quick reaction answer was going to be the 2nd coin because of the beautiful cameo contrast, and the lovely delicate semi-PL surfaces -- wow what a clean cheek on Miss Liberty!!.

However, upon closer examination of the photos I noticed 3 obvious "reed marks" in a prime focal area on the upper portion of the eagle's breast just under it's neck, which would be totally unacceptable for me to purchase on an MS-67 coin, and which would really bother the heck out of me if it were my coin.

Based upon that assessment, if forced to select one of the 2 coins, I would probably select the top coin (#1) with the toned frosty obv and semi-PL rev. Although I'm not wild about it either, since I prefer more cameo contrasted PL/DMPL Morgans.

I'll guess that Coin #1 will sell for MS-67 Money (~$750) and coin #2 will sell for somewhere between MS-66 & 67 money (~$450)... Although since the market places a 60% grade weighting emphasis on the obverse, I may be surprised how strong the bids are for coin #2... >>

Good observations.

I agree the first one has a semi-PL reverse. The strike, luster, and marks are all outstanding. The toning is original and nice, but not outstanding. I'd say she'll fetch $900.

I agree the second one is fully semi-PL. The strike and luster are also outstanding. Yes, there are marks on the eagle's breast, but the overall eye appeal is enormous, and the rest of the coin has few marks and is breathtaking. She may only really be an MS66 due to the marks on the eagle's breast, so I would subract for this. However, I would add for the semi-PL fields and eye appeal. I'd say she'll fetch $1000.

KlectorKid

I would love to own either. If only coin #2 didnt have the marks as Stuart pointed out. But I dislike the toning on coin #1, I would rather go for coin #2. I say $864 for coin #1 and $936 for coin #2.

RedneckHB

#1 $1050
#2 $863

zenny

<< <i>However, upon closer examination of the photos I noticed 3 obvious "reed marks" in a prime focal area on the upper portion of the eagle's breast just under it's neck, which would be totally unacceptable for me to purchase on an MS-67 coin, and which would really bother the heck out of me if it were my coin.

>>




It's the reverse, the obverse is virtually perfect. And, as we all know, the obverse generally carries a coin. The grade of ms67 is "superb gem" or the like, not "perfect coin without a blemish in sight." I think if the milling mark, (as they put it in the catalog) pulled the grade down it was from 68 to 67.

Trust JB on the prices folks, he knows what he's talking about.

By the way, there are 19 ms67 1880-s morgans for sale in the heritage auction. Most of them look pretty solid for the grade to me, no.2 appears to have one of the top 3 or 4 obverses in the group.

z

from these photos i guess i'd take no.2 as it seems pretty awesome, while no.1 with just a touch more/better/something toning would probably put it over for me...

Bear

Coin #1 has what I consider a ho hum color that does not cover entire coin. Also the fingerprint

detracts. As a coin its just OK and will not bring a premium price. Hammer at 635.

The second coin is a nice pleasing dollar with what appears to be a light blue coloration

and a very clean cheek. This coin might bring 800 dollars.

Dennis88

Defenitely the second one...

BLAST WHITE 4EVER!!!!

Dennis

BAJJERFAN

Why does it seem that so many toned coins have fingerprints on them?

Placid

<< <i>Why does it seem that so many toned coins have fingerprints on them? >>

Because they don't show up on non-toned coins except proofs.

BAJJERFAN

That ugly toner mite clean up purty good after a bath.

<< Why does it seem that so many toned coins have fingerprints on them? >>

Because they don't show up on non-toned coins except proofs.

I have seen plenty of untoned coins with prints or print remnants.

coinguy1

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I am a toning lover and was drawn to the color (quite pretty, though not beautiful) on the first coin. Still, the print bothers me a bit.

The reeding mark on the eagle's breast on the second coin bothers me even more, however. That to me, is a perfect example of a coin which appears to be properly graded, but, which I don't want, because something about it really hits me the wrong way. I suspect that those who are bothered by the print on coin # 1 might feel the same way about it.

So, based upon the images, I'd prefer coin #1. I hope to be able to view both coins in person next week and report back to everyone regarding how they look compared to the images.

IrishMike

Mark having owned some 67's I don't care for either one. I can't stand fingerprints and even if the other coin didn't have the reeding marks I don't like it for a 67, it would be at best a low end 67. There are better looking ones out there.

coinguy1

Well, the toned example won out, bringing $1610, compared to the white one, which realized $1121. Unfortunately, I did not have time to view them in person in Milwaukee.

stman

<< <i>Trust JB on the prices folks, he knows what he's talking about. >>



Uh huh.

kyleknap

BOTH coins sold more a lot more than most people expected, which is just a sign of how strong the market is.

Also, the REAL monster 80s in 67 in that sale was lot #8258, which I predict will be in a 68 holder very shortly (along with 79s #8196). It was the only 80s I bid on (and I love that date), so, of course, it sold for just above my bid. Don't you just love auctions?

Kyle

barberlover

I am convinced morgan people are nuts. Maybe a good kind of nuts, but nuts. 1610 dollars for a type date morgan with a print in 67, thats getting close to 64 trade dollar money.

If I owned any morgans graded 67 by pcgs I'd sell them right now. It just can't go on forever, can it ?

Les

zenny

<< <i>

<< <i>Trust JB on the prices folks, he knows what he's talking about. >>



Uh huh. >>




giving him the benefit of the doubt of judging/grading by photo, (and we all know Heritage has gotten better, but still it's tough, especially with toning), he was closer than anyone else who guessed! both went for well over sheet, and i must admit that i saw what he saw in the photos, but i'm not shocked at all that those who viewed the lots in person and/or chose to bid saw them the other way around.

My march greysheet shows bid at 755, 13 of 19 sold for 815-1725, 1 (the icg, of course) sold for 500, and 5 didn't sell.

obviously the bidders felt that most of the coins were at least solid for the grade, and almost a full third of them sold for 30% premiums and up....

that was a fun one, Mark, thanks.


z

jbsteven

I loooked at both coins in person and can say the white one should not go into a ms68 holder because of the mark on the reverse. The toned one MIGHT slip into a NGC 68 holder if it is lucky.


On a side note:

I purchased a wild obverse toned 1880 s Morgan in a ANACS ms68 holder at the show and CROSSED it to a PCGS ms68 holder. When I picked up the coin the PCGS rep was VERY suprised I made a ms68 and even more suprised it was a cross (she did not look at the coin but rather made the observation from the grade alone). This coin was passed over by at least 3 other dealers at the show so I guess they were not convinced it would cross to PCGS 68. The coin sold about 30 seconds after I picked it up.

(the above example is for Stman and his doubtful opinion of my grading abilitites )

IrishMike

All I have to say is unbelievable. That date in PL 67 without reeding marks and fingerprints was selling for around $800 two years ago. The toned coin should never be a 68 with that print.

dollardude

Thanks for posting the results, Coinguy.

<< BOTH coins sold more a lot more than most people expected, which is just a sign of how strong the market is. >>

Agreed. BOTH coins were way beyond all of our guesses for such a common date, thus showing what a strong market this is. I was surprised the first one went for more. From a purely technical point of view, the first one was cleaner with less marks, but the second one had much nicer eye appeal.

stman

<< <i>(the above example is for Stman and his doubtful opinion of my grading abilitites ) >>



What you got a complex about your grading abilities? My post had nothing to do with your grading abilities. Zenny was mentioning to folks about how they were being tough on the coins and also mentioned to "Trust" your guess on the final price. Your price seemed to be way off imo so I only brought that part up. Hey glad you crossed a 68 but honestly I don't see a big deal with this crack-out or cross-over game. If one has the money to play, and buy, you're gonna win and lose. Period

Edit to add.... did I ever mention I'm 100% on my cross-over results?

RedneckHB

very good guess JBSTEVEN

Dog97

It sure as L wouldn't be the nasty top one with that fingerprint all over the obv.
It sure as L wouldn't be the bottom one either with the HUGE 3 reed hit on the eagle.
You can keep both of them.
As far as guessing how much $$$$, I'd be hesitant to say. Some moron will probably pay big $$ for these problem coins cause the slab says MS67.

coinguy1

Dog, in case you missed it...



<< <i>Well, the toned example won out, bringing $1610, compared to the white one, which realized $1121. Unfortunately, I did not have time to view them in person in Milwaukee. >>

coingame2000

I bought the toned MS67 1880-S $1 (Lot # 8247) from the auction at Central States, and as usual, the Heritage online image didn't do this coin any favor. To begin with, the fingerprint that is so prominent in the Heritage image is very faint and unobtrusive in person. Moreover, the image completely failed to capture the intensely brilliant arc of emerald, magenta, lemon, sky blue, lilac and gold across the lower portion of the coin. Darn glad to have this coin to inventory.

Mike

aem4162

i'd give you $50 for the white morgan

Dog97

No I didn't miss it Mark. I just was trying to politely say I wouldn't buy it. A figure print you can barely see; I guess that makes it a little better then. Figures the person I called a moron for buying it was a big time dealer & board member.
Sorry Mike. Crawling back under porch now.

puff

<< <i>No I didn't miss it Mark. I just was trying to politely say I wouldn't buy it. A figure print you can barely see; I guess that makes it a little better then. Figures the person I called a moron for buying it was a big time dealer & board member.
Sorry Mike. Crawling back under porch now. >>



Coingame2000 should appreciate this post when he reads it Dog97.

coingame2000

Dog97,

You don't have to crawl back under the porch and I was amused by your comment -- not offended in any way, shape or form. Each of us (dealers and collectors) have different ideas of what constitutes a really cool coin and that's one of the things that make collecting and/or dealing stimulating and enjoyable.

Mikey the Moron ...

stman

<< <i>Mikey the Moron >>



Heh, I'll yell that out the next time I see you at a show. Come on Mike (the moron) you know you wanted to smack him with the newspaper as he was crawling under the porch.

Bear

Im sorry Mikey, the position of Moron has already been filled

by a more senior Forum Member. We will keep your resume

on file should an opening occur.