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Mint may replace Sacajawea Dollar
chuckfarthing
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These people need to wake up and smell the coffee. Any barrier to acceptance would dissappear if they include in the legislation to get rid of the dollar bill when the new coin is minted.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
<< <i>The problem is, there isn't anyone in congress that has the "Frankies" to push for the elimination of the dollar bill. >>
The politician's game is quid pro quo. If taking an action pleases their constituents and gains them votes, they'll do it. If not, they won't. Politicians are a very pragmatic group. The problem is when you FORCE the public to do something, most don't take too kindly to it. Let me use an example. Suppose I come up to you and say "Recent studies reveal that exchanging pens for pencils helps the environment and is more cost-effective. Could I persuade you to try this out on a limited basis?" would you be less hostile to the change than if I said "You may not use pens ever again. Any document drafted in ink will be voided."?
Look at the special interest groups involved, too. Paper lobby, leather lobby, vending machine lobby (they don't want to have to retool all their machines), cash register lobby (don't want to have to redesign their cash drawers), ink lobby, etc.
I know I would vote against any Congressman or Senator that told me I couldn't use dollar bills anymore. Many here may disagree, but a great many Americans would also cast their votes in an unfavorable way. Yes, it CAN work--Canada and Europe have proven that. But the old American adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is still well-remembered by our politicians. I might also argue that with the increasing use of credit and debit cards, even for once cash-only businesses (like fast food), dollars, as coins or paper, are becomingly increasingly less used.
By striking new $1 coins with different presidents at the rate of four per year, they are hoping that people will collect them, resulting in big profits to quell the huge Bush deficit. You see we need this money as part of the $87 billion appropriated to rebuild Iraq for the benefit of people who hate America, never lifted a finger to overthrow Saddam Hussein, followed Saddam willingly into Iran and Kuwait, killing, looting and raping as they went, and are now showing their gratitude for their liberation by killing our soldiers.
CG
blah blah blah blah....take that to the open forum.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
No need to redsign cash drawers, there's already a slot for dollar coins. The open slot where the dollar bill went could easily accomidate the 2 dollar bill. Printing more 2 dollar bills will help to appease the paper lobby, and many vending machines already accept dollar coins. Not sure what you mean by the leather lobby.
I do agree it probably wouldn't be a good idea to force it upon the public, but a little education would go a long way to help ease the initial suffering.
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
By striking new $1 coins with different presidents at the rate of four per year, they are hoping that people will collect them, resulting in big profits to quell the huge Bush deficit. You see we need this money as part of the $87 billion appropriated to rebuild Iraq for the benefit of people who hate America, never lifted a finger to overthrow Saddam Hussein, followed Saddam willingly into Iran and Kuwait, killing, looting and raping as they went, and are now showing their gratitude for their liberation by killing our soldiers.
>>
Which has been paid for by $87 billion in oil per year that we are getting for free
<< <i>Not sure what you mean by the leather lobby. >>
Wallets
And no vending machine I've ever used has accepted my Sacs, so it probably depends on your region of the country. $2 bills are a joke and won't circulate no matter what, nor would a $2 coin. The public won't accept a new denomination--or actually an old one that they've never accepted.
<< <i>And no vending machine I've ever used has accepted my Sacs, so it probably depends on your region of the country. $2 bills are a joke and won't circulate no matter what, nor would a $2 coin. >>
The vending machines at my workplace accept both dollar coins and two-dollar bills. The $2s are kinda weird, but most every vending machine made in the past 20 years is designed to accept dollar coins -- provided the little "DOLLAR COIN ACCEPT" switch inside is set to the "yes" position. (Yes, it's that easy -- I've even hacked one before.)
1. Unlock the other denominations from representing dead presidents
2. Cause a repeal of the hijacked nickel design
3. Get people used to thinking in terms of dollar coins
4. Maybe with enough revolving exposure, people might use them.
Yeah, dream world stuff.
Flaminio--that's an interesting fact. I wonder if they are all like that, and if so, why they wouldn't want to turn the switch on?
Good point in the original article. It's going to take a much bigger effort than this.
<< I've traveled all over the world in my naval career, and all the countries we visited that use the dollar system such as Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia to name a few, did away with their dollar bills years ago. In fact, these countries use 1 and 2 dollar coins. The problem is, there isn't anyone in congress that has the "Frankies" to push for the elimination of the dollar bill. >>
I am also well-traveled, and agree with your statement. I don't think there is enough power in the paper, ink, etc. lobbies to keep a major change like this from happening. This would be my plan (I've posted this before):
1. Eliminate the dollar bill, thus forcing everyone to use coins. Redesign the coin as the gov't suggested in the article (good idea).
2. Resize the coins to make better logical sense, i.e., the larger the coin, the larger the value. Use the same sizes as the euro coins. That would make the vending machines industry's job a lot easier as they could market the same machines to both the U.S. and Europe.
3. Eliminate the penny altogether. This was a valid amount at one time, but inflation has now made this nearly worthless.
Check out a Vanguard Roth IRA.
Our congressmen are sheep and not leaders. They would never do what they knew to be right if they thought their
constituents would be against it.
> cash register lobby (don't want to have to redesign their cash drawers),
I haven't seen a cash register made in the last 30 years that didn't have five different bins for the coins.
> to quell the huge Bush deficit
> I do agree it probably wouldn't be a good idea to force it upon the public, but a little education would go a long way to help ease the initial suffering.
People are idiots. Let's help them make the decision. Since paper dollars are so much more expensive system to use, let
people pay $1.10 for each one they get. Once they are paying for their convenience I'm sure they will change their mind.
-KHayse
<< <i> I don't think there is enough power in the paper, ink, etc. lobbies to keep a major change like this from happening. >>
No, but there is enough power in the constituencies. A Congressman who tells his constituents that they can no longer use the dollar bill will be a Congressman without a job. Though I'm a Republican, I'd vote for a Democrat in a heartbeat if the Republican had some stake in eliminating the dollar bill.
A moment of clarity coming from the Mint Director. At least someone in power is awake at the wheel on this issue. The public has
spoken very clearly.......AGAIN. The public does not want to get rid of dollar bills. Period end of story. The vast majority wants to
use them and therefore the costs related to producing them, no matter how much, are valid and approved of by the public. It's quite
clear to me.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I also don't think the dollar has so little buying power as to be reduced to coin status. Say you're buying an item that costs $4...you wanna keep a pocketful of change to pull out and sort through or would you rather grab your wallet and pull out 4 ones?
The public HAS spoken. We're a nation of people who want quick action and convenience. We don't want to wait in lines behind people digging through their change (anyone get stuck recently behind the 900 year old woman who is digging to get exact change and she can't even see the coins?) and we sure don't want a bunch of coins weighing down our pocket (which is why I use my debit card usually). And frankly, the cost savings while it sounds impressive to you or me, would be absolute pocket change (no pun intended) to the government (and it most likely would get SPENT by some democrat anyway).
The public HAS spoken. We're a nation of people who want quick action and convenience. We don't want to wait in lines behind people digging through their change (anyone get stuck recently behind the 900 year old woman who is digging to get exact change and she can't even see the coins?) and we sure don't want a bunch of coins weighing down our pocket (which is why I use my debit card usually). And frankly, the cost savings while it sounds impressive to you or me, would be absolute pocket change (no pun intended) to the government (and it most likely would get SPENT by some democrat anyway).
>>
Exactly!
Looking for PCGS AU58 Washington's, 32-63.
Seriously though, you can go to Walmart on a Saturday morning (HELLO: if you are retired, WHY do you pick the busiest MOST CROWDED day of the week to go shopping?) and literally stand behind some old lady for ten minutes while she tries to find EXACT CHANGE.
P.S. No disrespect intended to the elderly, I know I'm stereotyping and most elderly people check out quickly with a check or debit card, etc. Just an example we are all familiar with
You don't like that design? Ok.... Put any of the old designs that you choose on the obverse. Walking Liberty might be a good choice.
But I think that doing that is far more simple than all these contests and doing all this artwork.
It is better to dwell in the corner of the housetop, than with a brawling woman and in a wide house. - Proverbs 25:24
I would like to see a $1, $2, and $5 coin, whether or not the corresponding denom bills are kept or not.
I find it somewhat strange that the U.S. has in the past had $2.50, $5, $10, and $20 coins when money was alot more valuable (more purchasing power) and now does not. What would the equivalent purchasing power of a $20 coin in 1920 be today? $100 or more?
The reason coins were issued for high denominations was because they contained precious metals. Bills were very unpopular because, well, they had no inherent value. Today, dollar or higher denomination coins would have (essentially) no more inherent value than a dollar bill.
Best regards,
Dan
First Place Winner of the 2005 Rampage design contest!
<< <i>Moving to an electronic transfer method would save all the money we spend on minting and printing. >>
The mint actually makes a FORTUNE in seiniorage (sp?), and if coins/bills stopped circulating altogether, the government would lose billions in revenue a year, since it costs them like $.02 to print a dollar bill and they can sell it to banks for a full $1.
Why not just force all the world govornments to "get along", "start sharing", and totally get rid of the whole capitalistic system? If we could just get along and start sharing, we just might find that our collections would be worthless except for pure intellectual discussion and the knowledge gained. Were this to happen, maybe numismatics might even become a real science instead of being relegated as merely a hobby.
By the way, Jesus was a true communist. His statements reflect a true sharing based on need, not greed. Most of the collectors I know, are in it for the joy of learning about a coin and it's history.
BTW, If anyone had the original "Widow's Mite" that Jesus held as an example, it would be worth Millions even though the population census was very high.
The point is back then there were $20 coins which would buy alot more widgets than $20 would buy now. I understand alot of the appeal of the coins were they had precious metals and they were useful for commerce transaction (such as banks) since there was no electronic money back then. But if they found $20 coins useful enough to make back then, why can't we use $20 or larger than $1 coins today, especially since it takes so much more dollars to buy the same thing than back then.
<< <i>But if they found $20 coins useful enough to make back then, why can't we use $20 or larger than $1 coins today >>
Because the ONLY reason they found them "useful" was due to their metal content. Then, as now, I'm sure people didn't particularly care for carrying around heavy coins all the time, BUT when it's a choice between carrying around an item with intrinsic value, and carrying around something that's only worth something because the government says it is, the decision is a no-brainer.
The one big reason the paper dollar will survive a bit longer is that 60 percent of all currency is the 1$ bill. ALL of the paper for our currency is produced in Ted Kennedy's district. There is no way he will allow that firm to be downsized by 60 percent while he is in office. This is but a small blip on the radar of politicians, but all politics are local (Tip O'Neill). That is the reason I do not foresee the demise of the paper dollar anytime soon.
<< <i>To clarify, BEP does NOT receive a dollar for every bill sent to the FRB. >>
Explain this please. If it only costs $.02 to make something that you sell (to someone, somewhere) for $1, how is somebody not making a profit? If not the BEP, then the fed. Either way the government is making money--literally.
Chris
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
All I know is if I go up to a local machine and drop in a Sac, it won't accept it. But if there are switches that may explain it.
CG
<< <i>You are all missing the point. The folks in Congress and the Treasury know that the dollar coins will not circulate so long as they keep printing paper $1. The proposed new dollar coins are not reallybeing struck for circulation, they are being struck to sell to Americans to raise $ billions. >>
Well, by that logic Congress should just make more paper $1s -- they are cheaper to make and sell, in the short run. The reason dollar coins are more cost effective is their lifespan -- the average dollar bill lasts merely nine months, while a dollar coin lasts 30 years or more in circulation.
You're all missing the real point. The paper used to make money is manufactured by the Crane Paper company in Massachusetts. If the dollar bill were discontinued, Crane would lose a lot of money. Do you think Ted Kennedy would ever allow this to happen? Me neither.
While you're at it, google up "zinc lobby" and "cent elmination" while you're at it.
It has nothing to do with public acceptance or saving the government money or an effecient monetary system. It's all about special interests.
<< <i>It has nothing to do with public acceptance or saving the government money or an effecient monetary system. It's all about special interests. >>
Geez... I hope this kind of thing isn't going on elsewhere in our government.
Perhaps the price is just too steep.
Is your conscience at rest if once put to the test?
You awake with a start to just the beating of your heart.
Just one man beneath the sky,
Just two ears, just two eyes.
I say again, the sac is the best design on US coinage since 1947. It would be terrible to lose it for the sake of more presidents.
<< <i>No, but there is enough power in the constituencies. A Congressman who tells his constituents that they can no longer use the dollar bill will be a Congressman without a job. Though I'm a Republican, I'd vote for a Democrat in a heartbeat if the Republican had some stake in eliminating the dollar bill. >>
Hey, this sounds like a good way to start with a "clean slate" in Congress. Let's all rally for the elimination of the paper dollar and if we win, we will effectively overthrow the current status quo by starting a new government! Everyone in the country will be so upset with their representatives (because they will have holes in their pockets from carrying around these heavy hunks of metal) that they will vote all the rascals right out of office!
If there is anything I as a coin collector really need, it is a coin with the bust of Warren G. Harding!
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
<< <i>It has nothing to do with public acceptance or saving the government money or an effecient monetary system. It's all about special interests. >>
No. ALL power ultimately devolves from the people, and the sine quo non of the issue is public acceptance. Ted Kennedy will one day die or retire, and the public still won't accept the coin. I agree that Mr. Kennedy plays a factor in today's politics vis a vis removal of the dollar, but even if Kennedy were not around any longer, very few politicians would risk their reelection to do such a controversial thing.
<< <i>very few politicians would risk their reelection to do such a controversial thing. >>
I don't know -- honestly, I don't think it's that big of an issue. We pay more attention to it here because we're numismatists, but I don't think the general public really cares, aside from an obvious resistance-to-change factor that pervades all of society. Also, given the exceedingly short attention span of the American people, if Congress dropped the ragbuck in a nonelection year, it would be a forgotten issue by the next election day. If the government dropped the rag-buck, people would bitch about it for a month, complain for a second month, grumble for the third, and forget it by the fourth.
Most of the lay-people that I've spoken with about dollar coins and rag-buck elimination are at first opposed to the idea. However, once you go through the numbers with them and explain the $500M/year savings, they warm up to the concept.
Also, can we get away from the idea of the government "forcing" us to use dollar coins? The dollar denomination is the only one where there is a choice. No one complains about being "forced" to use quarters, or five dollar bills. Those denominations are manifested as coins and paper because that is the most efficient medium for them. The most efficient medium for the one dollar denomination is the coin. And that's what it should be, and only that.
Look at the news: the big controversy for the last WEEK is whether or not John Kerry threw away his war MEDALS or just the RIBBONS. If people really give a crap about something so ridiculous (a distinction without a difference), they will certainly care when good ol' Uncle Sam reaches into their wallets and rips out every $1 bill, replacing it with a piece of metal that does not fold and weights 20 times as much.
As far as the $500 million dollar "savings," ask the "general public" how much they care about that, given that the 2005 budget exceeds 2.4 trillion dollars, and that politicians will just waste the $500 million on something else. Ask the general public if they'd be willing to add .00000005 cents to every transaction in exchange of having the convenience to use bills.
EDIT: Incomplete sentence
<< <i><<Putting the faces of U.S. presidents on dollar coins would entice collectors>> >>
Does anyone actually feel they would be "enticed" for pics of dead presidents on the coins?
The state quarters are one thing....they are here all the time (the states) and people can equate. No one has a "political view" of states, for the most part.
For presidents, they do. People view some presidents as really screwing the pooch on things.
Not true for state quarters.
People use their political rhetoric and "signage" on this forum in their posts but I haven't seen a post about how bad a state is or how it really messed someone up.
I don't think the "pending" change would entice me...it is going to be a hard decision for me if I "collect" even 1 example of them or not.
Who here is REALLY excited by this and will get ALL of them? Why?
Leave the dollar coin alone, make it bigger, give it some new face but not one to make a political statement (SBA was a political statement....Sacagawea was/is a political statement.....don't make it presidential...only thing worse than that is the "1st wives" coin idea.....BLEH!). Give them stamps but stay away from the coins with this idea. It's just as bad as the Secretariat commem. BLEH BLEH!
Put Liberty back on or Uncle Sam if you have to change it, but no more rotating many times per year. That gets tiresome about the first year or two, IMHO.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment