POLL: Are you for or against the coin doctor posse?

ER

Or do you really cares?
Just vote. No need to state your reasons one way or another. Discussion is in the other thread.

EVillageProwler

I don't really understand why anyone but a bad guy would be against the posse...

EVP

boiler78

EVP- I concur!

LanLord

Even though there have been a number of threads, and some long ones about the posse, I really don't know enough about what they are doing/going to do, to state my support or lack there of.

Steve27

I'm taking a wait and see approach; it's too early to make judgements.

keets

i'm for the idea but probably not in lock-step with their approach, whatever that may be!!

al h.

EVillageProwler

Boiler,

I disagree!

EVP

ddink

Perhaps someone can tell me why any honest person would be against a watchdog group dedicated to end fraud.

ER

<< <i>Perhaps someone can tell me why any honest person would be against a watchdog group dedicated to end fraud. >>


Maybe some ACG or NTC mole just voted against it.

nwcs

Overall, I am for it.

JadeRareCoin

I don't really understand why anyone but a bad guy would be against the posse...

I just voted against it. Does that make me a bad guy?

Why did I vote against it? Well, as I have stated in other threads, I firmly believe that it is a losing battle if the strategies as outlined by Legend are to be employed. Waste of money. However, if the "posse" uses their "substantial wealth" to promote education about coin doctoring and telemarketing, then I am all for it and would even offer my help. Someone suggested an eductional web site in another thread. Great idea! Also, how about a non-stop weekly ad in Coin World that directs traffic to the web site?

The problem is that coin doctoring could not be conveyed well in a court of law. Sure, the people of this forum understand doctoring, but will Rev. Bob or Grandma Wilkinson understand it as they sit on a jury? Defense lawyers would have a field day in court while defending a coin doctor. Imagine a defense attorney drawing a parallel to the SS Republic "curating" and "telemarketing", and how the coin doctor posse members are principals in the group. A jury would have a hard time understanding how removing a scratch on a coin with a laser is a bad thing. Remember, most people who do not collect coins would say that a polished coin is better than a dirty coin.

Solution: Continue to form the "coin doctor posse", but don't focus on chasing individual coin doctors. Instead, focus on educating the public. Spread knowledge.

Coin doctoring will never be eliminated. As I write this, there is probably a coin doctor in his basement working on coins. How are you going to stop him?

FrattLaw

And is all doctoring bad? Is there ever a time when it is well thought of by the community and by individual customers?

Go read what this "coin doctor's" customers have to say about him.

Terrific Feedback

Who is going to be the arbitrator of what is good doctoring as oppose to Mr. Evil doctoring?

I'm with Dennis completely -- education should be the ONLY focus of this group. Forget the legal wrangling -- that's a joke.

Michael

EVillageProwler

So, Jade Chap, are you saying that you are *against* the notion of the coin posse simply you dislike its potential implementation? Unless you think its potential implementation will actually make things worse, or is truly baneful to the hobby and industry, then I would think that you should still support it. One way that you can support it is by continuing to offer thoughtful and constructive suggestions while recognizing that it is not intended (at least initially) to be a panacea for the hobby's ills.

On the other hand, if you are *truly* against the intent of the posse, then you are either a bad guy or selfish because it doesn't benefit you enough.

EVP

dorkkarl

i can't speak for the jade boys, but seems to me he's saying he's against a coin posse, but would vote in favor of a coin education forum.

what a concept.....

K S

Stuart

<< <i>Even though there have been a number of threads, and some long ones about the posse, I really don't know enough about what they are doing/going to do, to state my support or lack there of. >>

I'm with LanLord and am in the dark about the "Coin Posse"

Can someone write a concise summary of what this is about, so that I don't have to trudge through too many posts... Thanks!

dorkkarl

stuart, the coin posse vows to seek out & destroy those who would "move metal" using non-approved methods in an effort to improve a coin's appearance.

that's my fanciful intepretation.

K S

ER

No discussion here, please! Go to the other thread and discuss all you want.

JadeRareCoin

So, Jade Chap, are you saying that you are *against* the notion of the coin posse simply you dislike its potential implementation?

Yes, I am against the notion of a coin doctor posse. However, I am not against an organized group that combats fraud (illicit coin doctoring and telemarketing scams) by educating the masses to the best of it's ability. Frattlaw is an attorney. He, and others, have stated that the proposed approach for this so-called "posse" is ridiculous and a total waste of time. The current ACG lawsuit is a harbinger of what's to come if the coin doctor posse goes forward as planned. I hope that the members of this thus far secretive group will read this and at least consider the counter viewpoints stated in this forum. Remember....these are just opinions and thoughts. To suggest that someone is a "bad guy" just because he/she offers a constructive criticism is really unfortunate and I beg you to reconsider your comments.

On the other hand, if you are *truly* against the intent of the posse, then you are either a bad guy or selfish because it doesn't benefit you enough.

I don't like the sound of your statement. First of all, nobody here really knows the "intent" of the posse. It seems that the only spokesman for the group is Legend on this forum and Legend has a difficult time conveying the mission of the posse, not to mention keeping her composure lately. Therefore, would someone from the posse (i.e. John Albanese) please address some of these issues in this public forum? Regarding your statement about me being a bad guy or selfish because it doesn't benefit me: preposterous. Funny that you should mention the word "benefit" though. Unless more information regarding the posse is forthcoming, and/or if the group's plan isn't realistic, then some will probably speculate that the group of major dealers behind the posse are doing it only for positive publicity.

EVillageProwler

I don't like the sound of your statement.

I hate for this to get personal, since it shouldn't be about you against me or Karl against Legend or any one person against another person...

But, I think you're being a bit overly sensitive here. You brought this upon yourself first by asserting your so-called opinion (in a different thread) that the Albanese group is doing this as a publicity stunt. Consequently, I think I am well within my right to assert my opinion that you are being selfish with your "my way or the highway" or "what's in it for me" attitude.

EVP

EVillageProwler

One more thing, since this doesn't seem to be getting to everyone's eyes...

I believe the "posse" -- Jade, don't pick on it simply because you dislike the name -- includes education as one of its main action items. I also believe that the whole notion of litigation involving the posse is as a DEFENSE against tactics such as that being employed by ACG against Stuppler, K6AZ, et al. One can reasonably assume that if the posse were to do its job well enough, then it would certainly have to fend off litigious antagonists.

EVP

DoctorOfTone

Hey what about a Baldman Posse? or a Shortman Posse?

This whole talk of a posse is a complete and total waste of time and is simply that same thing I have repeated over and over again about vigilanteism and the groups ease of playing investigator, cop, judge, jury and executioner without even the slightest thought that this is wrong and illegal. So, I think a Posse Posse is what we need here. Education is what is needed and first thing you should do is go through your own collection (slabed and raw) and weed out all the doctored coins or better yet have someone else do it since the owner of a coin is the last to think that it is a suspect coin. Then when that is done and you note that fact on each coin so that in the event you sell it the next owner is aware of the coins condition. By doing this you then can move on to looking to solve the fraud problem. But to act all concerned and macho in this let's get em mentality is really sad.

jbsteven

DOT

care to reveal your true first and last name?

relayer

I voted for it, but I think I would be against it if they came after me

michael

FOR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


it will be a positive step and something that is long awaited

the first trail blazers in anything always have a tough nut to crack

but this i think will be the start of something good and positive and will only grow and get more overall positive results

michael

DoctorOfTone

Pete Conrad is my name and I am from Lakewood, CO.

Why did I win something?

PC

nwcs

I can tell that, Laura, from the info that has been put out so far. But that is also why I have been looking for an official statement from the group itself. A mission statement or a vision statement or some other item we can look at and get a feel for where the group is positioning itself instead of all the mass speculation that really is no information at all.

DoctorOfTone

She is probably talking about the coin farms, the slab rehabs and the Toning for Dollars operations. You watch someone will come out and write a book like Ball 4 was to baseball and then I sure would not want to own a lot of toned coins raw or slabbed because the house of cards will tumble. I guess someone has to be able to make more off the book rights for blowing the whistle than they are from the acts themselves or benefits from such. Or someone gets jealous or mad at someone enough so that a book deal looks like a nice farewell. Likely suspects are anyone that is divesting out of certified toned coins in a big way that is connected.

EVillageProwler

Mr. Conrad,

I think you may have formed an opinion on the Albanese Group simply by virtue of its nickname used around here. "Posse" is NOT its official name -- or, I don't think it is!

Perhaps you can tell us what you know about the Albanese Group witout using the word "posse" i your response. That will help us guage where and how to increase your understanding of what this group is trying to do.

EVP

DoctorOfTone

My apologies, I was just reacting to what I see here. I am all for measures to stop fraud, heck I paid my dues in getting taken enough times and I wished I had not had to contend with that as it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

JadeRareCoin

DOT (Pete), I don't know who you are or what your forum handle represents, but you make perfect sense to me. I hear you saying what I and a very few others have stated; focus on education and lose the "posse" mentality. I also like your writing style, since you don't seem to be intimidated easily.

coinlieutenant

I am all for it.

The idea of a watchdog group sounds good to me. It needs to be done... badly...

The means to the positive end will be a subject of debate of course but I dont think education alone will do it.

Do you really think that you can educate the average collector to pick out lased coins or AT coins? There is still a debate over some aspects of that right now amongst the graders. Many doctored coins get by PCGS for goodness sake...

I bet that less than 10% of DEALERS can pick out lasing on a proof gold piece, much less collectors. And I bet less than 50% of dealers could pick them out ever if they were educated. I sure has hell couldnt pick one out.

Is that the education that you are talking about? Educating the graders?

I say educate AND retaliate...

There should be someone that these people have to answer to. And in order to keep it fair and unbiased there should be checks and balances bulit into the system

dorkkarl

how will this poll compare to the inevitable coin-short-um poll?

K S