A Serious Question , why would anyone pay a premium for a graded card, or even buy graded cards for

packCollector

I post this as a serious question, i wanted to post it on the sgc board but could not remember my login info or user name.

With all of the recent threads between MW and Greg, restoration , admitions of alterations (56 set) , bashings of dealers , collectors and just about everyone and everything , overgrading , inconsistancies, etc ; I am trying to think of how I would convince a collector that card grading and paying premiums for cards is a good idea for a collection? why would you buy graded cards? why pay premiums?

I am not a large collector but I think I spend much more on cards than an average collector but proably not as much as the people on these boards. I read all of this stuff and i think to myself is it really worth it ? I fully understand why "stump" pulled the plug on his collection ? Does anyone ever have anything positive to say about grading? grading is supposed to reduce/eliminate the uncertainty of buying cards, by reading these message boards , it appears that the opposite is true. It makes me think that I am glad the majority of collectors( board members are 1% of collectors, I am stating this and I don't know what is really true) don't read these boards as they would turn them off to collecting much like it is doing to me.

Griffins

I think if you didn't have the internet, you wouldn't have a need for graded cards. If you are buying in person there is no need to have someone else tell you the condition of what you have in hand. This goes away once you bring in all the transactions on ebay. I don't expect all 8's to look the same- but I do expect that every grade falls within a range - a 7 could be a 6 on another day, or possibly an 8, but it certainly wouldn't be a 3. This is not true when you are relying on a sellers ( who you may never have dealt with before) ability to rate his own cards.

CON40

Very good topic Duncan...

As long as buying and selling occurs in arenas where one can't view a card in person (eBay, online auctions, etc), I think buying graded is still advantageous to buying raw. At least a PSA/SGC/GAI graded card has some checks and balances that it is most likely a legitimate card. With raw cards, there are no checks and balances beyond the seller's opinion and honesty. I have been burned many times buying raw on eBay, but I have only been burned twice on graded cards I can recall (a trimmed BGS 9 Arod SP and a recolored SGC 88 71 Ryan). I found out when crossing them to PSA, but in the policy of full disclosure, I have not crossed any of my PSA purchases to other companies' slabs. I may have others I am unaware of.

As long as I buy online, I want a graded card. My chances of obtaining a legit card far outweigh what I could get (or get taken for) in raw. The premium still makes it worthwhile for the relative peace of mind.

My advice, just stick to buying from the dealers and auction houses that have your trust along with sterling reputations in the hobby. You might pay more, but you should be ok.

koby

I have purchased raw cards online and very seldom are the cards in the condition described by the seller. Legitimate grading companies like PSA, SGC, GAI and Beckett are not perfect but they do at least give you some idea of a third party's assessment.

qualitycards

Plus another advantage of buying graded cards from the top tier graders is that they are very liquid and easy to sell when the buyer decides to change gears and start a new set or sell out all together. There are more collectors who sell their excess on eBay then full time dealers...jay

Basilone

Yep....they are very liquid...and with eBay...you always have the chance of two guys that "need to have it" and the bids go through the roof.

Oh yea...protection and authenticity are sold reasons as well.

thejam

another reason, if you collect vintage, is that nearly all the good vintage is slabbed

zsz70

Packcollector,

I think you're letting a few guys get to you. Don't let them ruin your perspective.
I would confidently say that 90% of all cards graded by PSA are legitimate.
I have pulled thousands of cards (like you have too) from fresh vending cases
and submitted them to PSA. There are MANY positives to our hobby.
There are also negatives. But the positives far outweigh the negatives.

I think the whole thing behind the recent blowup between those two is
that we need to be a lot more careful with certain people.

I must confess that I will not buy from certain dealers. I will not buy from
DSL because I believe they get preferential treatment. I've never seen
a thread on that subject. I have seen some of their cards in holders,
some did not seem legit to me, but I'm not going to spend night and day
on these or other boards making a stink about it. To each their own.

marc

AlanAllen

Marc,
There have been a ton of threads on DSL. I'm of the opinion that their cards are fine, but there are those that agree with you.

Joe

Glynparson

I honestly think that the bigger submitters DO NOT get prefferential treatment in fact i used to submit with someone who was a top 5 submitter at the time and i honestly fell i got better grades when i submit the cards on my own so i am tired of the they get breaks they have more sliders then you or i because they are submitting 1000+ cards a week that would indicate through common sense that they would have more sliders but i dont feel the % would be much one way or the other if you submitted enough of a sample to compare. As for why would anyone get their cards graded, though some doctoring does in fact still go on in this hobby it is less then 10% as prevelent as it was in the late 80s thru early 90s (before grading took off) yes the big 3 (gai psa and sgc) are not perfect but they are all pretty darn good, i did not include bgs because i have seen far to many altered cards (in my honest opinion) in BGS or BVG holders then any company short of pro and cta. PLUS as JAY said liquidity you can call up Jay or myself or countless other people in the hobby and they will quote you a price sight unseen because of the hold grading now has on the hobby/industry of baseball card collecting.

1420sports

I think you're letting a few guys get to you. Don't let them ruin your perspective.

After re-reading some of my posts (as pointed out by a good chum) about giving the hobby a break for a spell, I have to agree. I have too much fun invested into the PSA experience the past few years to let some recent issues get to me.

mcastaldi

While it's a relatively small thing, noone has mentioned shipping. One of the reasons I hate buying raw singles on eBay is because I never know how much care the seller is going to take in making sure when I receive the card it will be in the condition he advertised. It's MUCH easier to improperly pack a raw card than a slabbed card.

Mike

aconte

I agree with 1420. I've changed my mind back to collecting again. The problem is I can't get back half my
collection and now I'm stuck with an Arco arc!

Maybe I'll start an easy set that won't have much competition or any chance for restorations.
The 54 Wilson Frank's looks like an easy one.

aconte

Basilone

Neal & Tony- Now you guys are bailing on me? I just started my collection about 16 hours ago!!!

WinPitcher

I was thinking about getting one of those noah arc thingys myself

still waiting for that damn mailman

aconte

JB,

Nah! I'm in for the long haul!

Just having fun.


aconte

1954

Aconte-
Would love to see you come aboard and join our little cult. We will be nice to you.

Later,
1954

murcerfan

so I just spent 6 hours doctoring a cow into a Rhino....
.....Now you won't want it !!

aconte

1954,

I doubt I could handle buying 1 card every six months based on scarcity, budget, and my tastes.
But if I really ever dumped my red man cards (hopefully not for a long time - God willing), the
Franks would be up my alley. I like the year, the color, and the player selection. No Berra though
so that aint cool. I wonder if I could get the hotdog package airbrushed out?

murcerfan,

JB talked me back in. Don't dump that cow-rhino yet.

aconte

1420sports

Bailing? I need the deer and rhinos for series 1, and then I am going after series 2 ... it has the rare Yak (red bottom version) and Toucan, which was pulled very early in production due to a conflict with Kelloggs.

I bought these for my child (due in November) but I knew that he/she would not be able to play with them so I guess I can. Why waste a perfectly good toy.

Dave, let me know how the "rhino" is coming ... the doctoring fee I paid was pretty steep

aconte

packcollector,

I apologize for hijacking your thread so I should answer your question. It is a fair one.

I buy graded cards at a premium because I truly enjoy the cards I own. I like the way they
look in the holders. I used to hate to go to shows and weed through dealers selling
raw overgraded junk on their tables. Also, with ebay I think a high dollar card or set
should be bought in graded form. It's the only way to fly on ebay.

Granted the graded card and overall landscape of the hobby continue to change. While
some have found new ways to manipulate or steal from the unsuspecting buyer there have
been a lot of positives to come from grading. I think the post that states that the majority
of items graded by the top companies are ok is right on. The percentage is not known but
it would be a high one.

Find ways to enjoy the hobby and these boards and things will work out ok. Otherwise,
you may question why you are collecting at some point. Maybe it's best to jump out now
instead of later when the pain could be greater. I guess this was the answer that stump
got when he asked himself questions.

aconte

aconte

<< <i>it has the rare Yak (red bottom version) and Toucan, which was pulled very early in production due to a conflict with Kelloggs. >>



Neal,

Funny guy... you almost got me... you....

aconte

joker73

Here are a few thoughts on why I buy some graded cards:

1) You can't register an ungraded card! The set registry might be the greatest contribution PSA has made to the hobby, and I (like most on this board) enjoy a little friendly "competition" with some of my sets.

2) For my nearly-century old T68 set, $6 isn't too much to pay for a solid protective holder and a reasonable grade assignment. 50 years from now, I'm sure I'll feel even more strongly about that.

3) This may be random, and somewhat related to #2, but many modern cards are made with much better materials than most pre-1989 cards. That's one of the main reasons I don't bother grading my modern auto cards (I care more about the auto and less about the condition of the card anyway). But with some older issues, especially those with chipping/border issues, having the card secured in a holder could (totally speculative) extend the passing down of your collection an extra generation or two.

Clearly, not every card out there should be graded - but I think there are some compelling reasons for it, depending on your collecting goals ...

Robert

1420sports

This is my new mission

Basilone

Neal-

I had those too! Including the batmobile, the bat van, the spidey mobile, etc.

Those can be expensive MIB.

murcerfan

1420sports

John, I am looking forward to the next toy show - Tony got me all hyped up for one

CON40

1420;

I had lots of those MEGO super heroes! Loved'em! I started tracking them on eBay for my 4 year old as he loves Superman... I found an original 76 Superman MIB and the auction was at $300!!! I inspected it closely with the tought of bidding my brains out, but, I think it was restored! The boots had definitley been "re-soled" and the S logo was heavily doctored!

Beware, I think Dr. Stain works on these guys too! LOL!

I think I'm gonna get back to collecting old Thunderbirds vehicles! That Lady Penelope was a definite Hottie! Strings in all the right places if ya know what I mean!

1420sports

Yo CON, is that a scene from Ultra-Man or Johnny Socko?

NickM

This was the feedback I left a few days ago on a raw card:

seriously overgraded - said card with major pitting on front was VG-EX to EX

It was a neutral feedback, BTW. The card was cheap, and is a pre-war HOFer.

I've never gotten a Poor card that was labelled as a PSA 3 or PSA 4, and I doubt I ever will. Grading gives me a lot of peace of mind when buying online.

Nick

Fabfrank

I agree with Joker73 on some of his points. I feel the grading fee and encapsulation is a fair price to pay to preseve your cards. Although the Registry has been a marketing boon for PSA, I was already doing many player runs before the Registry and still would even if it didn't exist.
I also grade/collect key modern cards. Although some are easy to get top grades on, many are extremely difficult. Foil on cards tends to chip and flake, UV coating tends to stick to the cardsaver insert and peel off part of the picture when removed. Dark colored cards (black, dark blue, etc) pick up fingerprints and smudge very easily. Those are just a few issues the modern collector deals with when grading. Yes, the cardboard is better than what they used in the 60's and 70's, but the stuff on the cardboard makes it harder to get top grades.

I think that in most cases the premium for a graded card has dropped, but the premium still exists. I also wouldn't want to go back to the way the hobby was before grading.

highend

i don't think it can be denied that grading saved the hobby. at least with PSA or even SGC you can be FAIRLY secure that the card will match the assigned grade and it is authentic and not doctored. sure it is frustrating that there are guys out there always looking for an angle to rip you off but i can honestly say if it wasn't for grading i would have stayed out of the hobby.
it was also said that the PSA registry is one of the biggest contributions to the hobby and it's true. let's face it how easy would it be to put together any raw set after 1960 ? all you need is a few grand and an ebay password , on the other hand a few grand and an ebay password will not get you that far on a 72 set in PSA 8 or better. it's a challenge for anyone despite how much disposable income you have. LONG LIVE THE REGISTRY!!!