collectors of Japanese coins...help please

hamiltonjh

My first trip to the darkside... dont slam me too hard.

I've recently taken an interest in Japanese coins.

I recently picked up:

2 Meiji era coins;
1883 2sen
1886 1sen
1 1850 Edo era coin referred to as "4 mon" (waves). I have no idea what the denomination is.
1 1959 silver 100 yen coin.

Anyway....: Are there a good internet sites anyone uses for Japanese coins? I looked and while I found some decent sites for background, I found nothing which lists values. I didnt pay much for these, but I intend to get in to Japanese coins and would like to start a good knowledge base. Any help with preferred books and good websites would be appreciated.

SYRACUSIAN

<< <i>My first trip to the darkside... dont slam me too hard. >>




This is not your first trip to the Darkside. Too much open forum has damaged your brain I think.

hamiltonjh

really? when was I here? beside when I FIRST became a member and mentioned I was in japan.

sumnom

You could get yourself a copy of Krause or Japanese Coinage by Norman Jacobs and Cornerlius Vermeule. There is also a Japanese "redbook" that I am sure you could easily find in Japan. Nihon kahei katarogu is the name, I think. Mine is from 1978 but it works pretty well for all the mileage it has.

I really like the Meiji issues. I have a complete set of the dragon pattern one sen pieces. I have been trying to complete the two sen set but that has been a bit more difficult.

toyonakataro

I can't help you much because Japanese coins are darkside to me, but "mon" was the smallest denom in edo era.
1Ryou=4Bu=16shu=4000mon
"The catalog of Japanese coins and banknotes" is useful for beginners, but I'm afraid you won't find it at local book store...you have to order it from coin shop or online book shop like amazone

hamiltonjh

thanks Sumnom..I'll investigate the books your talkin about. Which 2sen coins do you need? I found a decent shop here in Misawa that might have them, or be able to get them. If you tell me what you're lookin for then I can check or pass on the list to the dealer and ask him about hunting them down, of course making sure he knows that it's not a definate sell but to check for availability.

toyonakataro: I thought the denominations were rin, sen and yen, from smallest to biggest. I dont know what those acronyms are that you used.

10 rin = 1 sen
100 sen = 1 yen

Is that not right?

cosmicdebris

This is your 10th visit to the darkside. LAST ONE.

tbirde56

The Standard Catalog of World Coins is the best general reference.
The mon coins are undated but can be identified by reign if the characters can be seen.
All of these are not uncommon in VF grade or less and make a good start on a Japanese type set.
Welcome to the forum!

hamiltonjh

thanks TB. My wife translates the dates for me since I cant read enough Japanese to figure it out. Plus...all the eras and stuff...confusing to me.

Cosmic....my 10th visit? no way...i think you forged some of those threads.

cladking

The dates aren't too tough once you learn a couple simple rules and the
shapes of the numbers. The current coinage fascinates me and some of
it is tough in unc. I still need the '68 100Y to complete my unc set.

I've been looking for this since '76. Found the '67 late last year and it's
nearly gem.

hamiltonjh

I'll keep my eyes out for it CK.
the '68 unc.

If the coins have numbers, I can figure it out usually. Old coins dont have numbers...it's all Kanji or something.

Askari

<< <i>Cosmic....my 10th visit? no way...i think you forged some of those threads. >>

Yes, way!

hamiltonjh

<< <i>

<< <i>Cosmic....my 10th visit? no way...i think you forged some of those threads. >>

Yes, way! >>



Ok ok, so this is my first "serious" trip. how's that?

cosmicdebris

Serious

So you've never taken the darkside seriously before this post thread?????????

You live in Japan don't you?

hamiltonjh

I take my beer seriously. Other than that.....




does lurking count?

Yes, I live in Japan, northern Japan.

shirohniichan

toyonakataro: I thought the denominations were rin, sen and yen, from smallest to biggest. I dont know what those acronyms are that you used.

Ryou, bu, shu, and mon are "pre-modern" denominations. Only after the Meiji Isshin did Japan use the modern system of rin, sen, and en.

sumnom

Hamilton,

The decimal system you mentioned was an innovation of the Meiji Period and started in 1870 (Meiji 3). The Edo Era, also called the Tokugawa Era, lasted from 1600 to 1868. You will find that different historians cite different dates for the beginning and end of the Tokugawa so the dates I listed are approximate.

Pre-Meiji, or pre-decimal monetary systems in East Asia, and elsewhere I suppose, are a hassle to figure out. The units that Toyonakataro mentioned were not always monetary units but also units of account or units of weight. Hence, a ryo (nyang, yang, liang, tael) of copper is not the same as a ryo of gold or a ryo of silver. To make it worse, there were fluctuating exchange rates between these different metals that varied by region and the quality of the coin. So coins minted in different times and places, even though they may have had the same face value, had different exchange values because people were aware of the quality of the coin. In the late 19th century in Korea (pre-1892), there were one mun, 5 mun, and 100 mun (mon) coins in circulation but the one and five mun coins circulated as one mun while the 100 mun coin had an exchange value of around 8 mun. These rates varied by region and sometimes by the mint where the coin was produced. Coins produced in Pyongyang in 1891 were of such poor quality that even though they were of a one-mun face value, they were circulating at around one-third of a mun.

It was a mess.....

The Japanese monetary system went through all kinds of troubles in the 1850's and 1860's when the Japanese economy was more fully opened to the world economy that eventually led to the decimal system of 1870 with which you are familiar but we can talk about that another day. I have get some wrok done now........

sumnom

Yes, wrok. There is a lot of wrok to be done.....

Stork

<< <i>I've recently taken an interest in Japanese coins. >>

I thought that might happen...took longer than I thought though .


The Jacobs and Vermule is nice.

Linkage.

I also find Modern Japanese Coinage (2nd ed.) by Michael L. Cummings (aka mpccoin on ebay) helpful for explanations. Both are short enough for those of us with limited attention spans.

The JNDA catalog is also useful--I have depended on the kindness of people at work to translate certain things, like which Kanji stands for "perfect mint state" or "used but nearly new".

You can usually find these on ebay at various times (mpccoin sells the latter two on occasion-- I have met him at a coin show in Tokyo and he was very helpful).

I'm intermittently working on a type set, but it's safe to say I've only scratched the surface of learning the 'modern' Japanese coins. I'm absolutely clueless with the pre-Meiji stuff. Satootoko knows quite a bit, but I think he is traveling right now.

Have fun!


Cathy

sumnom

Hamilton, if you get yourself a copy of the JNDA catalogue, it will give you reason to learn some Kanji!