What seems to be a bit confusing with this piece is the weak reeding yet reasonably well-formed rim. Weak reeding indicates a weak strike (often called a die trial strike) but the well-formed rims suggest a struck through grease (often called a grease filled die). I would be very interested in hearing what ANACS has to say, but based on the picture, I would bet on a struck through grease.
Here are two examples of what I am referring to regarding a weak coin edge:
I am actually not fully conviced that this error is attributed correctly even though it is from Fred Weinberg's inventory (he REALLY knows his stuff). The coin just does not look like a die adjustment strike.
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Lane... You have to remember that because of the upsetting of the rim on a blank the rim is the highest point and therefore the first part hit by the die. Most die trials will have a fulll strike rim unless the pressure of the press was real low.
<< <i>Lane... You have to remember that because of the upsetting of the rim on a blank the rim is the highest point and therefore the first part hit by the die. Most die trials will have a fulll strike rim unless the pressure of the press was real low. >>
Okay, I guess I just have rarely seen a weak strike (die adjustment strike) with that well-defined of a rim (i.e. relatively high pressure). I figured there would be some rim, but on the quarter it looks pretty sharp (then again, it's the same on Example 4 above). Thanks!
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Roger and the other folks who've diagnosed it as a "die trial" may be correct. I find that state quarters that are weakly struck may nevertheless show a quite respectable rim. Evidently there is relatively little convexity at the periphery of the die face in most state quarter designs. This, combined with a high upset rim on the blank planchet, could result in a well-struck rim, while the interior of the coin remains weakly struck.
I have a very weakly struck Connecticut quarter that shows hardly any design on either face and the reeding is entirely absent. Yet the rims are relatively well-struck.
On this Virginia quarter, I cannot be sure whether the reeding is naturally weak, or has simply been battered so severely that it appears weak. If it's simply been battered, then it would be a "grease strike".
I avoid using the term "die trial", as it falsely implies definitive knowledge as to the cause the weakness. One can never actually establish whether a weakly struck coin is an escapee from a test run, or is simply the product of equipment malfunction. There are two proximate causes for weak strikes: 1) insufficient die approximation, and 2) abnormally low striking pressure (with normal die approximation). Of course, the two could co-occur. There are many possible ultimate causes of a weak strike, which could include: 1) an escapee from a test run, 2) dies falling out of adjustment during a run, 3) interference with normal die approximation during a strike, 4) a blown circuit breaker, etc. Here are some links to two helpful articles:
I agree with the authors of these articles that a weak strike by any other name is still a weak strike. Identifying such a coin as a "die trial", "die adjustment piece", or "set-up piece" is simply a way to surround the coin with an exotic aura that it probably doesn't deserve. This gulls easily duped buyers into forking over more money than they really should. Dealers, grading services, auction houses, and some collectors play this game in order to hype the coin and increase their profits.
Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
I'm surprised nobody pulled it from circulation before now. I guess most just figured it was worn out. A guy from our local coin club got a 2000 dime a month ago that is clearly grease filled. These type of errors that look worn out stay out there a while. Great find!
Tom
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981 Current focus 1855 date type set
Interesting idea, but the Vegas coins have too much detail throughout the face of the obverse and reverse underneath all those marks. The coin in question has limited design elements present and too few surface marks to be from excessive use.
The quarter definitely is either a weak strike or struck through grease.
Lane
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I say greasy die and the reeding is weak because the collar was filled with grease too. If it was a weak strike ALL the letters would be incomplete, not just some of them.
Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
FC57Coins
Posts: 9,140 ✭
Comments
How strong is the reeding around the coin??
Look at the rim . . .
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
If the reeding is very faint it is a die trial.
I am sitting here looking at one almost identicle to yours!!
John
myurl
<< <i>Looks like a weak strike due to the wrong planchet. Could that be a dime?
John >>
If it was a dime it would not be anywhere near that big around and will still be sharper struck!!
That happens a lot with die trials.
Here are two examples of what I am referring to regarding a weak coin edge:
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Then upon further searching I find this example, which seems to contradict my point:
Example 4
I am actually not fully conviced that this error is attributed correctly even though it is from Fred Weinberg's inventory (he REALLY knows his stuff). The coin just does not look like a die adjustment strike.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Lane... You have to remember that because of the upsetting of the rim on a blank the rim is the highest point and therefore the first part hit by the die. Most die trials will have a fulll strike rim unless the pressure of the press was real low.
Dennis
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<< <i>Lane... You have to remember that because of the upsetting of the rim on a blank the rim is the highest point and therefore the first part hit by the die. Most die trials will have a fulll strike rim unless the pressure of the press was real low. >>
Okay, I guess I just have rarely seen a weak strike (die adjustment strike) with that well-defined of a rim (i.e. relatively high pressure). I figured there would be some rim, but on the quarter it looks pretty sharp (then again, it's the same on Example 4 above). Thanks!
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I have a very weakly struck Connecticut quarter that shows hardly any design on either face and the reeding is entirely absent. Yet the rims are relatively well-struck.
On this Virginia quarter, I cannot be sure whether the reeding is naturally weak, or has simply been battered so severely that it appears weak. If it's simply been battered, then it would be a "grease strike".
I avoid using the term "die trial", as it falsely implies definitive knowledge as to the cause the weakness. One can never actually establish whether a weakly struck coin is an escapee from a test run, or is simply the product of equipment malfunction. There are two proximate causes for weak strikes: 1) insufficient die approximation, and 2) abnormally low striking pressure (with normal die approximation). Of course, the two could co-occur. There are many possible ultimate causes of a weak strike, which could include: 1) an escapee from a test run, 2) dies falling out of adjustment during a run, 3) interference with normal die approximation during a strike, 4) a blown circuit breaker, etc. Here are some links to two helpful articles:
http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/DieAdjustmentStrikeOrWeakStrikeQ.htm
http://koinpro.tripod.com/Articles/TrialorWeakStrkMoffatt
I agree with the authors of these articles that a weak strike by any other name is still a weak strike. Identifying such a coin as a "die trial", "die adjustment piece", or "set-up piece" is simply a way to surround the coin with an exotic aura that it probably doesn't deserve. This gulls easily duped buyers into forking over more money than they really should. Dealers, grading services, auction houses, and some collectors play this game in order to hype the coin and increase their profits.
-Aaron
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
Jim
The quarter definitely is either a weak strike or struck through grease.
Lane
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces