What Board Members say about ICG slabs
Justhavingfun
Posts: 835 ✭
The April 9th ish of The Coin Dealer Newsletter ranked the ICG slabs higher than PCGS. This was totally contrary to my own experience and I posted a thread asking for comments. Here's a summary of what the Board Members say about the ICG slabs. An interesting and (to me) devastating indictment of the ICG slabs and indirectly of CDN data.
Cocoinnut: "ICG graded pieces almost always sell for hte price of a coin graded 1 to 3 points lower by PCGS."
Russ: "CDN uses a propriety algorithim from an alternative universe." [lol. JHF]
Carl Wohlforth: "I just sold some proof Lincolns in ICG holders that were nowhere near NGC or PCGS prices"
Sonofagunk: "All they are saying is that if the coin is ICG graded, you KNOW it is crap, so you pay crap prices"
jcping: "if you ever saw any ICG early graded coins, you would know why they were very good when ICG started ... Then, ICG loosed the grading standards, IMO; don't know the reason"
Oreville: "I suspect this CDN comparative is from the first year ICG existed. At that time ICG was very good, in fact, very very good, very competitve with PCGS."
Bushmaster8: "I have had about 1 in 10 ICG coins cross at same grade to PCGS"
Flyingcougar: "I don't think they're saying that ICG slabs are better, look at a Blue Sheet which now lists ICG & ANACS. The ICG Merc 16-D in a 65FB is $9500.00, PCGS is $32,000.00 and NGC is $22,425.00 for site-unseen." [so in this case, the ICG slab is worth less than a third the value of the PCGS slab. JHF]
Manofcoins: "1 in 20 [ICG coins cross] for me. I have bought several with the idea of cracking and accepting 1 grade lower"
RegistryCoin: 'It Was confusing. Icg did start off as..........Now???????"
MrPlatinum: "One word QVC ICG coins are bringing a huge premium on all those TV coin shows, politics? you bet"
The consensus seems to me to be clear: The ICG slabs don't hold a candle to the PCGS slabs.
Yet, Coin Dealer Newsletter is ranking ICG slabs above PCGS. Why? How do they get this nutty result? Does anyone know how they do their rankings?
Best wishes,
Jush Having Fun
Cocoinnut: "ICG graded pieces almost always sell for hte price of a coin graded 1 to 3 points lower by PCGS."
Russ: "CDN uses a propriety algorithim from an alternative universe." [lol. JHF]
Carl Wohlforth: "I just sold some proof Lincolns in ICG holders that were nowhere near NGC or PCGS prices"
Sonofagunk: "All they are saying is that if the coin is ICG graded, you KNOW it is crap, so you pay crap prices"
jcping: "if you ever saw any ICG early graded coins, you would know why they were very good when ICG started ... Then, ICG loosed the grading standards, IMO; don't know the reason"
Oreville: "I suspect this CDN comparative is from the first year ICG existed. At that time ICG was very good, in fact, very very good, very competitve with PCGS."
Bushmaster8: "I have had about 1 in 10 ICG coins cross at same grade to PCGS"
Flyingcougar: "I don't think they're saying that ICG slabs are better, look at a Blue Sheet which now lists ICG & ANACS. The ICG Merc 16-D in a 65FB is $9500.00, PCGS is $32,000.00 and NGC is $22,425.00 for site-unseen." [so in this case, the ICG slab is worth less than a third the value of the PCGS slab. JHF]
Manofcoins: "1 in 20 [ICG coins cross] for me. I have bought several with the idea of cracking and accepting 1 grade lower"
RegistryCoin: 'It Was confusing. Icg did start off as..........Now???????"
MrPlatinum: "One word QVC ICG coins are bringing a huge premium on all those TV coin shows, politics? you bet"
The consensus seems to me to be clear: The ICG slabs don't hold a candle to the PCGS slabs.
Yet, Coin Dealer Newsletter is ranking ICG slabs above PCGS. Why? How do they get this nutty result? Does anyone know how they do their rankings?
Best wishes,
Jush Having Fun
Jefferson nickels, Standing Libs, and US-Philippines rock
0
Comments
Later, Paul.
Later, Paul.
Tell 'em the opposite of the truth, and some will believe it... ie., "Weyerhaueser, the tree growing company".
job I guess. I finally gave up on ICG and today 2 of those Roosies reside in PCGS MS68 holders. About
8 others ended up in PCGS MS67 holders, 2 ended up in body bags and all the rest graded out somewhere
between a low of MS64 to a high of MS66. But!!! I had no more then $200 into any one coin and most were
under $100. All in all I made out OK. The few top Roosies I ended up with in PCGS holders covered the cost
of all the rest.
I do remember one ending up in an NGC MS68* holder too. All the ICG winners have all been cherry picked
and are now in either PCGS or NGC holders. Everything I'm seeing today in an ICG holder is overgraded by
at least 2 grades or would be body bagged.
Onlyroosies
Needless to say I didn't agree with the results...
WH
I have never been able to cross an NGC coin to PCGS. I have crossed some ICG Morgans to PCGS at the same grade.
I would buy an ICG coin before an ANACS or NGC coin.
If you want PCGS slabs then buy PCGS slabs.
Specifically, I find that when I look closely at icg vs ngc, I used to find them equal, in second place together, pcgs is still the standard, ngc-add a grade, icg-add two grades, just to be safe (as a generality).
i have two matte proof lincolns that were cracked out of icg holders....both were 64 red/browns
i submitted both to pcgs....both came back 64 red/browns.
i guess sometimes they hit their mark.
Enjoy!
Just Having Fun
18 out of 20 NGC certified Quarters (all the 66s) crossed successfully. The 2 that DNC came as
no surprise as I figured they wouldn't. They were an NGC 65 1942-S and an NGC 67 1946-S.
Seems like 66 is pretty much the cutoff-I suspect most NGC 67s will not make it! BTW, all of
these were submitted in the slabs. Here's a shocker though. I had an NTC 64 1932-S come bac PCGS
63....GO FIGURE! That was a nice $1000 profit- for the record, it was sent in raw!
I just bought two ICG 67 Quarters that COULD go 67 however I am not really betting the house
on it. I think 66 is a much safer bet. They are two tougher dates that I actually stole for less
than the price of a 65-so I'll be content. I've seen enough 66s to feel confident enough to say
they'll go 66 BUT they are of such quality that 67 is a possibility.
Now, for the ultimate disappointment. I cracked out (very carefully) a PCGS 63 1932-S and did
nothing to the coin at all and it came back PCGS 58! WOW!
My experience is similar to yours: That PCGS is hardest on the top-of-the-line coins. And that's where I've had all my bad experiences with ICG coins: MS 66, 67, 68, and Proof 68, 69, 70, deep cameos. But the Coin Dealer's Newsletter's claim that ICG coins sell sight unseen for more than PCGS defies my experience and I think the experience of most of the people replying to the thread.
Hi Boom:
I'm really not surprised that the NGC coins crossed. For all the hoopdela about the NGC/PCGS rivalry, I've found that nice NGC coins will cross to PCGS, sometimes even upgrade. What is surprising is that you nailed down 90% of the coins in one swoop. I never have a batting average anywhere near that. I'm normally happy with a 20% batting average. So congratulations on that!
By the way, I've had good experience with ANACS coins crossing too. Coin Dealer Newsletter rates ANACS far below ICG and that's not my experience.
Have a blast!
Just Having Fun!
slab out there. I am optimistic-rather excited because I see very nice coins in the ANACS slabs go
for next to nothing. I've been fortunate when I have sent the coins in their slabs. But as in the case of that NTC 64 that is now a PCGS 63 1932-S Quarter- I do believe that human nature being
what it is, there would have been an immediate opinion without giving the coin the benefit of a second look. I have had some actually upgrade-now THAT is really cool. It's the same old same old-look
at the coin. Forget the plastic and just look at the coins and go from there. We've all looked at enough coins to know what looks right and what does not. If it doesn't set well with you-put it back down.
All these years of looking and learning has paid off in a big way for me, Shoot, anybody can go out and but an expensive coin but it's really a thrill to find a Gem in the "unwanted bin!"
Boom: It appears you have done very well upgrading Wash quarters, so the rest of this is not intended for you - just general "chit chat".
The "upgrading" game reminds me of gambling in Las Vegas. You meet "winner" after "winner", balckjack expert after blackjack expert, even guys who are convinced they know when the dice are "hot" or when they have found the "perfect machine" and big money can be made. Yet, what has been my very best performing stock segment in my entire stock portfolio over the past 12-18 months - GAMING. My purchase of Caesars stock is up around 100% in the past 12-18 months and my purchase of Aztar (Tropicana) is not far behind! Let's face it - the house nearly always wins in the end and the "house" in this case is PCGS and NGC (and perhaps the other grading companies that do well). Yes, there are the true "card counters who can always make money in the casinos and there are the true world class graders who can always make REAL, SERIOUS money playing the upgrade game. But, then there are the other 95% - 98% of the folks out there
Wondercoin.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
They did fix a problem with a 1970 small date dcam cent that was actually a large date. Took three months and several phone calls, but they made me whole.
As James Taylor at ICG would say - adios.
I agree
Cameonut
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
grade lower! They're nice, hand picked pieces!
Thank you, Boom.
What you say matches my experience and what the overwhelming majority of people who have responded to this thread say: That the ICG slabs are "el cheapos". So where does the Coin Dealer Newsletter get off saying that sight unseen, the ICG slabs pull more bread than PCGS slabs? It's nonsense.
Just Having Fun!
- (2) ICG MS68's crossed as PCGS MS67FB's, (1) as a MS67 non-band (as expected)
- (1) ICG MS67 crossed as a PCGS MS67 (as expected)
I have 3 more ICG MS68's at PCGS right now and I'm guessing 2 of them will cross at MS67FB (one may be a shot MS68FB but I'm probably just wishing)......and the 3rd one is a question mark. As Boom noted previously, these were all selectively chosen for their "cross-ability"....whether PCGS agress or not remains to be seen.
But.......I have probably crossed 50 NGC MS67's to PCGS MS67's so it speaks volumes that I've only found a handfull of MS67/68 ICG's worthy enough to send to PCGS for cross!
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!