Shipping and Handling Fees on ebay

mudflap02

Let me know if I am wrong about this - I recently purchased a raw card from ebay, 1 1994 Nolan Ryan pre-production single for $4.99. The shipping and handling on the card was $2.50. Essentially, I paid $7.50 for an ungraded card that is not too rare, but I wanted it and was fine with me to pay that price. I received the card in the mail today in a plain white envelope with a 37 cent stamp. I left the following neutral feedback:

Good card, but I refuse to leave + fb for shipping - $2.50 = 37 cent stampRIPOFF

He answered with the response:

Please ignore this ungrateful person and his incorrect accusation

And sent me the email:

Dear mudflap02,

Does your line of work involve, in any way, selling something for a profit? Is a service rendered for a profit? Do you subscribe to a magazine or a service like Columbia House? S&H means shipping AND handling. Handling is the service fee. That is the COST of doing business. The cost of shipping supplies. The cost of fees, aka ebay. The cost of time spent listing, imaging, packaging, and driving to the post office. $2.25 When was the last time you did anything for $2.25 ? It's people like you that makes the world stink. Next time I will hand deliver it to your house on a silver platter.


Thank you,
xxxxxxxx

Am I wrong for doing this? Every time I sell a card, I charge $3.00 for shipping in a padded envelope, which just about exactly covers the cost of the envelope, postage, and the ebay fees (give or tale depending on the final price of the card). This guy has a 1500+ feedback rating, so I doubt he made a special trip to the post office for me. I'm just fishing for some opinions - if I'm wrong, please let me know.

Basilone

The guy sounds like a tool. For $2.50 shipping...he should of used a bubble envelope.

xbaggypants

I charge $3.00 -$3.50 ( for as many auctions as the buyer wins) and always send it in a bubble envelope. If I were you I would have done the same thing. I so sick of being overcharged for items off of eBay.

As a seller I understand that it costs anywhere from $.30 - ??? for listing an item. I like to have this price built into my s/h. So after the $.30 for listing fees, $.50 for the envelope and another $1.60 for shipping I'm making .60-.90 off the deal. Which isn't bad. But I know that the buyer is getting thier cards in good shape and not getting ripped off.

bxb

I think it was a little harsh to leave him a neutral. You knew the S+H fees prior to bidding, and you got the card in good shape. That's the deal, and he fulfilled his part of the deal. If the card came bent or damaged, that would be different. $2.50 is actually quite reasonable compared to what I see lots of other sellers charge on eBay. That being said, I personally would never chance sending a card in a paper envelope, so you have a point there.

Live long and prosper.

gaspipe26

All good points, and I charge $2.00 to $3.00 and ship in a box or padded mailer, but by bidding you agreed to pay the shipping fees he has in his listing. If you disagree with his shipping charges clear an agreement with the seller before bidding or dont bid. If he doesnt state how he will ship, then just chalk it up as a lesson and stay clear of him in the future.

dbj77

the guy is lame...........2.50 and he sends it in an envelope with a stamp? Come on. I charge 2.50 for graded cards (bubble mailer with cardboard on both sides of card) and $2.00 for raw (penny sleeve in top loader sandwiched between cardboard).

The cost of doing business my bu.tt if he sells 1 card and charges 2.50 but only spends about .50 cents on envelope, top loader, penny sleeve and stamp. then he is up $2.00 on the deal. He doesn't even have to spend gas since he's mailing these in regular envelopes from his house. The guy definately deserved the neutral.

CON40

mudflap;

You did the right thing all the way! No way to justify a 37¢ stamp in a white envelope as a $2.50 shipping charge. On top of that, you paid a fair price for the card. He was just gouging you for the he11 of it! In the old eBay days, I would leave negative feedback for units like this guy you suffered with. Today, neutral is the best you can do if you don't want the neg yourself...

I'm proud of you!

Wabittwax

I agree with the neutral. I think negative might be a bit harsh since that option is usually meant for the worst of transactions.

By the way, baggypants, you are paying way too much for your bubble envelopes. You can buy them from parrothead for 12 cents each if you buy in bulk. He has a deal for 1000 of them for $119.00 delivered. Plus he a great guy to deal with on the phone. That's how I buy them.

ctsoxfan

I agree with what you did as well. I don't believe in S & H being a profit center anyway, and I always charge $2.50-$3.00 and ship items in bubble mailers, with extra packing materials and delivery confirmation. It usually costs me every cent of the S & H fees, but I don't care. The items get where they are going in good shape, and the buyer is always happy.

As for your agreeing to pay the fees listed because you bid on his auction...fine. But $2.50 should get you a bubble mailer at least, and the smartass email you got from him doesn't help his case.

Buckwheat

You should have left a positive. He said he charged $2.50, and that is what you paid. Yoou got the card in good shape. Solid deal.


I don't understand how what you do is any different, if you charge $3.00 for a bubble mailer and a .60 stamp. .12 for the bubble, and .60 for the stamp doesn't come close to $3.00.

I don't care what someone charges for shipping, as long as they state it upfront. Just figure it into your bid price.

Vargha

A neutral feedback response seems appropriate. Although the card managed to make it okay (this time), two pieces of thin cardboard and an extra 23 cents for the added ounce should have been a bare minimum shipping precaution. The shipping fees were stated upfront, so there is no issue there. His shipping methodology seemed like a dereliction of "duty" though IMO.

bill7549

No, he has a point. You should have left him a positive feedback or at the very least, just not left feedback at all, but definitely not a neutral. Shipping and handling means just that...both shipping costs, and the costs it takes to drive to the post office, stand in line for stamps, and mail out the card. If you did not want to pay for the shipping, do not bid on the card, it's as simple as that. If the card had come back damaged, you would be justified in asking for a refund due to crappy packaging, but if it came in in perfect condition, leave him positive feedback....period.

dbj77

I guess it's gonna get to the point where we're gonna have to email sellers ahead of time and ask how they package.
I state in my auctions exactly how I package graded and ungraded cards so people know what they can expect. I'm not a fan of being surprised like baggypants was.

Bighurt4

Is this one shipped in a radiation proof lead box?

Roger

Guess I'll build the cost of a welding kit to cut into the box into the price.

Brent

jrinck

I thought that the general consensus on this board was that a majority was OK with shipping and handling fees being used as a profit item. PSA is perhaps the biggest gouger of them all and nobody complains about them, so why pick on this seller?

packCollector

issue doesn't sound to be that reasonable shipping and handling can be a profit. issue is that it was sent unprotected in a white evelope. I would be pi$$ed too. if a seller is going to mail like that then he should state it. most people expect a padded envelope or some kind of protection. I received a few cards that were packed in cardboard strips and nothing else, that is fine since it is protected. It is not unreasonable to charge $2.50-$3 and ship for 60 cents when a padded mailer(50 cents) is used . I think all buyers accept that the rest is handling and appreciate the fact that the cards will arrive safely for an extra 1.40

jonnyrock

I see little problem with charging $3-4 for shipping and handling as long as seller is upfront.
However, when I do charge this amount, I always state that "card will be shipped in padded bubble envelope".
Thus, when I am charged this amount, I ask the seller to please ship in padded envelope.
I have to admit, I was fairly annoyed with the following situation:
Back in the day selling DVDs, I charged $5 shipping and handling- for "shipping in padded bubble holder with delivery confirmation".
In one instance, I had an individual league neutral feedback- any why? becuase he thought the shipping was too much. This in my opinion is not fair as I was completely upfront about the entire deal and he was in no way misled.

FB

I believe that there is covering your time and expenses and then there is gouging. And although its not an exact science - it sounds like this guy was closer to gouging than making an honest recovery of expenses.

A bubbly envelope @ $.63 postage shouldn't be a burden on $2.50 shipping ESPECIALLY considering that that his time to pack and time to the post office are still the same as the $.37 envelope.

I don't know that I would have given the neutral since the card arrived safely - but I'd remember before I bid on his cards again.

MorrellMan

Mudflap - the issues are twofold:

1. The card was sent in a paper envelope - I hate that also, but did the card arrive undamaged? If I got the card I paid for in the condition I paid for, including s & h, what's the problem?

2. Neutral feedback - anything less than positive feedback, IMHO, is punishment for a deal gone bad. If I got the card I paid for, do I really need to punish the seller because something COULD have, but luckyforhimthebast*rd, didn't happen?

I would have e-mailed him and said something like "meaning no disrespect, but we're lucky this card arrived undamaged - I would recommend using bubble mailers in the future. They're cheap in bulk and I would be happy to direct you where to find them." That way, I've not only vented, but performed a service. If he came back and slammed me for that, then I'd neut him.

cspeier1

I've ordered parts from major part houses that "claim" they don't charge freight. When you receive the bill it shows "package/handling" fee $8.99, Delivery Area $1.80. and fuel surcharge $1.80.. That totals $12.59, FAR from FREE FREIGHT!! I've never complained about paying for freight. If you want the product you really have no choice, other than get it in person.. $2.50 B.F.D.

Chad

Basilone

<< <i>issue doesn't sound to be that reasonable shipping and handling can be a profit. issue is that it was sent unprotected in a white evelope. I would be pi$$ed too. if a seller is going to mail like that then he should state it. most people expect a padded envelope or some kind of protection >>



I totally agree.

onegaucho

Getting a card in a plain envelope after paying $2.50 probably isn't right, however, the costs are stated in the auction, you bid, paid and received the card in good condition. Positive feedback (with your comment intact however) would've been appropriate IMHO.

For him to respond the way he did, that was probably uncalled for.


As a buyer, I've learned to steer away from items that overcharge for S&H.
As a seller, I usually just charge $4-5 and ship via PRIORITY mail, and if it's not a graded card, I offer $2 via bubble mailer.

Edited to add:

Let us know who the seller is so I can place him on my 'blocked' bidders list.
List of some blocked bidders

mudflap02

I really don't want to throw his name out there because I really don't feel like he did anything too wrong or unethical (hence the neutral feedback instead of a negative.) I guess the thing that made me post on here is the fact that he took so much of his valuable time (which was included as "handling" before) to write me the snippy email. So according to his logic, I wonder how much I owe him for the email?

scottsusor

As I've said before, there is nothing wrong with somebody who's running a business -- either full or part time -- covering more than "materials" and "postage" in packaging and shipping -- meaning, the TIME involved in doing it. Those that have received cards from me (and there are quite a few here) know that I always take great time and care in packaging. I encase every card in stiff cardboard on both sides, rubberband that together, encase that in bubble wrap, then put the bubble wrapped package in a bubble mailer. Larger groups of cards are sent the same way wrap-wise but in a solid box. I charge anywhere from $3 to $8 to package/ship. As I see it -- With the care I take in packaging, it should be about a 2/3 and 1/3 split on cost of materials/postage and my time. And time, of course, includes ALL time involved -- Buying materials, actual packaging time, and trips to the post office.

Now, that said, I think that any clown charging $3 to drop a card into a plain white envelope that costs 37 cents to send deserves an email advising him/her that such a standard practice and charge is unacceptable. If he/she gets enough of those, eventually he/she will change his/her ways because they'll tire of the flack. But I do NOT think that a neutral or a negative feedback to such a person is warranted nor wise UNLESS a card gets damaged with such packaging and they fail to make good on a return/refund.

Scott

helionaut

There's nothing wrong with the feedback you left. If the guy wants to charge you for the time it takes to drive to a mailbox, as if he'd never go by one otherwise, that's just stupid. If he wants to charge you for the time it takes to write your address on an envelope, that's just stupid. If he wants to charge you for every little thing involved in listing the auction and getting the card into the mail, then he's stupid because he gave away a lot for free. The cost of buying a computer, the electricity used to run the computer, the cost of the internet connection, the rent on his mobile home for storing the card, the insurance he has to buy to be able to drive his car, the food he ate that day to have the energy to put your card in an envelope, all those are expenses you should rightly have to pay for. If anything you owe him, like, $100.

What gets me about these guys is the buyers are the ones doing them a favor. Do we not get credit for the time it takes us to find their stuff? Do we not get to take a deduction for the time it takes to write out a whole check AND the envelope to mail it in? And if we have to drive all the way to the mailbox, should they not be paying us for that privilege? When was the last time I did anything for anyone for $2.25? When I was about 9 years old. If it costs that little, I'd be losing money filling out the invoice.

I believe feedback is left for the whole transaction. If the card arrived in good condition in spite of weak packaging, you don't get a reward for that. That's what's expected. If you pay a price that most people would expect a bubble envelope for and he has to rationalize every single penny he avoided spending on packaging, that is not a positive experience.