Mastronet pulling the wool over our eyes

Just wonder if anyone has seen the Wacky Packages die cut box up on mastronet.

Auction

I belive this box was sold on ebay last march. I think it sold in the 15K range. The mastronet listing says THEY opened two of the packs and sent the cards to be graded. I don’t believe this to be true.

1. the cert numbers on the graded cards are not sequential.

2. I remember bidding on the PSA 9 Alcohol seltzer a while back ( 2 years ago or so) the ebay seller sandy. In mastronets listing it says this is the only one that is a 9, and by looking at PSA population report this is true.


So I wonder if they the seller, or mastronet is trying to make it more appealing to someone who would buy the box to open the pack in hopes of getting all 8’s and 9’s? Has anyone else heard of them pulling stuff like this?


-Mike



Comments

  • sandandy is associated with Mastronet
  • 8 out of the 10 cards shown were graded at least two and a half years ago.
  • AwfulBits, I noticed the exact same thing about the certification numbers. I believe that there are 5 different sets of cert numbers for the 10 cards graded so it's total BS that they all came out of the 2 packs. The fact that you and Reid are both confirming that these cards have been around for a while tells me that Mastro is full of crapola.

    I gotta tell you that I opened up the bidding on this lot and was preparing to go much much higher until I read that description more carefully. I also had some help from another board member figuring out the cert information to confirm my suspicions.
  • murcerfanmurcerfan Posts: 2,426
    They seem to be telling bold-face lies throughout the catalog.

    The hyperbole thread

    The junior could be right thread


  • << <i>So I wonder if they the seller, or mastronet is trying to make it more appealing to someone who would buy the box to open the pack in hopes of getting all 8’s and 9’s? >>



    Yes, that is exactly what I think. They're "suggesting" that if two packs that "they opened and had graded" yielded two PSA 9's, six PSA 8's, and two OC's, then this box is a great find. Well either the seller is lying or Mastro is lying or both, and if the seller wrote the script for this auction Mastro should have noticed what we noticed about the cert numbers, and if Mastro wrote the script then they're just flat out misrepresenting the item.
  • I'm not sure that I'm following this. Is someone claiming that the packs in the box might have been searched and the best two packs were opened with different graded cards being substituted for those in the original two packs? image
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭
    if anyone can make out the cert #'s completely, are there other wacky pack cards graded around them? that would be hard evidence against there claim, it may prove they also pulled the best 10 cards out of a large group , either way it would refute their clain as to the 10 cards that came from the packs. if the cards are all different around the cert #'s , it is possible that a large dealer submitted them in batches which is standard practice and I believe sandyandy is rather large,(that sounded kind of funny)
  • Igloo - No, there's nothing wrong with the unopened graded packs in the auction. They weren't tampered with or anything. In fact most of them are GAI 9's which is awesome. The problem is that Mastro claimed to open 2 out of the 24 packs in the box "because they just couldn't help themselves" (yeah right), and they claim that they submitted the 10 cards from those 2 packs to PSA for grading. That is a virtual impossibility because if they did that then all 10 cards graded would have certification numbers in sequence (ie 1000, 1001, 1002, 1003, etc...), but they don't. Instead there are 5 different sets of cert numbers which means that the 10 cards graded came from 5 different submissions. Does anyone believe that Mastro or the seller opened up 2 packs, got 10 cards out of it, and proceeded to fill out 5 different submission forms for the 10 cards?
  • Gemmintman-

    I too was bidding on this lot, I am not the high bidder. I just don't understand how they think no one will notice this. At first I didn't think I was going to put up the money to make a serious run at this. At that time I found it odd that not even one of the ten cards had a gum stain or something. But didn't really think too much about it. It's still a great item and I'd love to own it but why would they pull something like this? This is the first time I am bidding on a masto auction. I am also bidding on two other things that from the scans and descriptions you can not really see some problems with the items. I only learned this after talking to guys in phila who had the stuff in front of them and asking them a bunch of questions. So far I am less than impressed with thier honesty. I guess when your stuff is this good you can get away with [email protected] like this.

    -Mike



  • << <i>if anyone can make out the cert #'s completely, are there other wacky pack cards graded around them? >>



    I believe there were, but I will have to go and check my notes later and get back to you. Frankly when I realized all of this krap a couple of weeks ago I was so pissed that I threw out my notes, but I'll see.
  • This would not be the first example in this auction where Mastro has found themselves being less than forthright.

    Sandandy is one of Mastro's ebay ids.
  • The really incredible thing about this is that they didn't have to do this!!!!!

    Put up 22 GAI graded packs (mostly 9's) along with an original box, and let the bids fly!!!!!

  • I dont know if this helps or not but here's a list of serial numbers:

    03665831
    03665838
    03665840
    07116595
    07116647
    50001944
    50001981
    03743056
    01842795

    I did a few quick lookups on the PSA site and this doesnt look very good. Lots of other wacky packages cards and even some lower grades mixed in.

  • The spray nit shown in the auction is cert #03665831

    03665830 is a psa 7 camals

    03665832 is another psa spray nit psa 8

    GMM- yeah why lie about something that's going to go for a ton of money anway.

    I know sandy is with mastro but when i bid on the psa 9 on ebay and did not win it, i'm pretty sure it went to a real buyer, not a buy back or something.


    -Mike

  • Thanks Igloo. I couldn't really make out the cert numbers. Anyway, there you go - 5 different sets of cert numbers with lots of lousy grades around them if you do the searches.

    We The Wacky Community Rest Our Case.
  • murcerfanmurcerfan Posts: 2,426
    the 2 certs beginning with 500xx were graded at a show (most likely the 2003 national).
    the others..... at least 2.5 years ago.
  • My experience with buying raw from Mastro has been a disaster. I bought a 1960 Vending box that had several cards graded PSA 9, and a few PSA 8. the remainder of the box was described as 80% NM/Mt to Mint. It was crap, with maybe 20% NM/Mt to Mint, with the rest being horribly off center, or horrible printing defects, or dinged corners.

    Another 1960 set was also grossly overrated, though I don't remember the specifics. My experience was that they were no bettter than Ebay raw.
    Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell

  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭
    Buckwheat-
    Was it a Mastro Chicago auction the '60's came from, or a Mastro Oser? In my experience (maybe 40 lots over 3+ years) Oser lots are graded about 1 grade higher than Chicago lots (I seem to get the grades that fit the description, but on Oser tend to get a grade below). Robert Edward (when he was with Mastro) and Chicago seemed the same, with RE possibly a bit higher (more conservative). I've experienced more liberal grading and much slower shipping with Oser, and this has been echoed by several others.

    BTW, Mastro seems to be getting slammed on this auction on all the boards- and the bids seem to be higher than ever.

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's



  • << <i>BTW, Mastro seems to be getting slammed on this auction on all the boards >>



    Where else Griffins? Any links?

  • gemmint-

    there are a couple of rumblings over on Network54.
  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭
    As always, John is a lot quicker on the draw.
    But here are some links for your reading pleasure.
    Re Mastro v 1
    And again
    One from Marz
    Opps!
    Fit and Trim

    Ok, you get the point.

    Edited to say I've read that board daily since it was started, and the Full Count board before that, and have never heard so much negativity about a Mastro as this one. The prices have really blown people out so there may be some frustration mixed in there.

    The one thing that bothered me was an email from Doug Allen last week offering advances to use on this auction for consignments for the next one. It would seem like they are really trying to crank things up this time. Don't know if they have an increased desire for astronomical sales, or if something like an IPO is in the offing.

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • next thing you know they'll increase the buyers penalty to 25%
  • Oh I thought you meant that there were other Wacky Packs discussions going on, but thanks for the links! Yeah pretty terrible I'd say.
  • GMM- I see you got jail-o, I remember when garetthill first sold the 3 10's on ebay a few months ago, I wounder why they got resold so soon?

    -Mike

  • AwfulBits, yes I was happy to win the Jail-o PSA 10, but disappointed that I lost the Skimpy PSA 10. Oh well.

    Do you remember what those three 10's went for the last time around on Ebay?

  • GMM- Kook which someone else bought the first time around went for $303. the other two were in the mid 200's but don't remember the exact $. I'm not sure how psa grades these. I think sometime if the die struck the sticker too hard, to the point it almost comes thru the back they dock it a few grades. Not sure if this is true or not. I bought a lot 4 1st off garetthill 2 were 5's which look great except for surface wrinkles on the back, the other 2 are 6's and have a very heavy die that is very, very visible on the back, but no other flaws that I can see. Any insight on grading on these?

    -Mike


  • Awfulbits, thanks for the info! I never had any graded so I don't know what to zero in on. Part of the reason I wanted a PSA 10 was to see what PSA considers to be a PSA 10 with these cards! LOL


  • << <i>Buckwheat-
    Was it a Mastro Chicago auction the '60's came from, or a Mastro Oser? In my experience (maybe 40 lots over 3+ years) Oser lots are graded about 1 grade higher than Chicago lots (I seem to get the grades that fit the description, but on Oser tend to get a grade below). Robert Edward (when he was with Mastro) and Chicago seemed the same, with RE possibly a bit higher (more conservative). I've experienced more liberal grading and much slower shipping with Oser, and this has been echoed by several others.
    >>



    Griffins,

    Sorry, but I am not that familiar with Mastro to know which type of auction it was. My cards came from the Sept. 2003 auction, and the payment was sent to Oak Brook Ill. Does that make it a Chicago auction?

    The vending box was lot 1672, and 11 of 413 cards were graded w/ 3 PSA 9 and 8 PSA 8. The description stated "The Blazers in this small hoard maintain the top quality stated grade level throughout" "In adition to the encapsulated cards, the following cards(all grading NM to NM/MT or better)are included: 132 Howard(2), 136 Kaat (3) 148 Yastrzemski (2) and 173 Billy Martin (3)."

    None of these cards would grade even a PSA 6. I was so excited to open the box, and was actually on the phone with Bob Earhart while I was opening them. Needless to say, I was very dissappointed.

    Buck
    Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell

  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭
    That was an Oser auction. The tip off is that in the catalog it states "all lots will be shipped from our Pennsylvania address".

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • That is a good tidbit of info to know. Thanks.

    Buck
    Ole Doctor Buck of the Popes of Hell

  • I have never bought cards from a Mastro auction, and won't from this one as well. I use them for my bat and hard to find memorabelia collection, and have never had any reason to complain. Yes, I know this is a card "Board" , but I think it's worthwhile to trot out a "BGO" (Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious): Mastro auctions sell far more than cards.

    Gawd I love 'em, but baseball is more than just cards.

    Steve


  • Final Hammer - $17,603 including the buyer's fee
  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭
    although I am in the same boat and will never understand some of the prices that get realized in this auction, alot of the discussions seem to be frustrations coming out. believe me I am frustrated too!

    the lot with the gehrig reprint(1776) is just plain stupid on mastros side. they don't list the card in the right up but then picture it along with the poor card that is in the right up. whoever takes the pictures must likely messed up and included the reprint in the picture. one would think that mastro would just pull it from the lot when doing the listing since it doesn't belond which could explain why it is not in the write up but is in the picture

    2 of the other threads are the same people complaining about psa and that the cards are trimmed in holders. good old MW at his finest. although MW may be a good dealer with a nice inventory , I never have and never will buy from him based on his negativity in general and inability to just focus on selling cards.

    I do agree mastro does seem to make these far fetched stories in an attempt to draw tears from your eyes and suck you in. WHY? the items speak for themselves and are going to sell for some ridiculous amout anyway. oh yeah, MW is now subtlely ripping gai that they labled the 52 packs 5th/ 6th series but somehow in his great wisdom he knows they are only 5th series.

    good luck to anyone who will be bidding in the next few days. I still have a couple lots going but nothing close to what I had hoped for.


  • << <i>That was an Oser auction. The tip off is that in the catalog it states "all lots will be shipped from our Pennsylvania address". >>



    They still ship a portion of the items from PA.



  • << <i>alot of the discussions seem to be frustrations coming out. believe me I am frustrated too! >>



    For me I've always been a frustrated collector, not just when the big auctions come up, but ALL the time. You are always short money, pass on things you should have bought, or just missed out on something. I did not start this thread out of frustration. It was out of the fact that Mastronet is defrauding the bidders on this lot in their auction. Are the cards listed in this lot from the two packs missing from the box? NO. Did Mastronet say they were? YES. They are there for defrauding the people that bid on it. This is fact, not frustration.

    -Mike

  • packCollectorpackCollector Posts: 2,837 ✭✭✭
    Mike

    sorry for the misunderstanding, I was not referring to this thread. I was referring to the 5 links provided later in the thread, people are complaining about prices , trimmed graded cards , the 52 box etc without any hard facts for a basis. your cases is sstated and proved which I commend you for. the other threads are all making conclusions sight unseen.

    Duncan
  • Duncan

    Sorry, when i first ready your message I wasn't readin it in the context of what had been said after my original posts, the links ect... My bad.

    -Mike

  • While looking at Mastro's Event schedule..the following information was listed.

    Spring Auction Sports Premier Catalog Auction Willowbrook, IL
    Auction items located in
    our Philadelphia office Auction Begins April 5

    Sports Ends April 22 & 23

    Consignment Deadline February 13

    They still do ship out of PA.

    In regards to Buck's lot...it appears that it was a Mastro (Chicago) auction...which ended approx August 30, 2003..with Buck receiving the goods sometime in September.
  • Basilone-

    On the 20th I was on the phone with a guy in Philly asking about a few lots I was interested in. He had those items in front of him while he was on the phone with me. All were from the Americana auction, so I can't say for sure about the sports stuff being in Philly or not.

    -Mike

  • According to the August 28-29th, 2003 Mastronet Sports Catalog that I have in front of me...it states in the "Please Read" section that auction lots are shipped from PA.

    The lot #1672 1960 Topps 2nd Series Vending cards that Buckwheat won was from that auction. The lot states the "high grade assembly" was removed directly from an an original vending BOX (read: not case) and totals 413 NM/MT cards. The box is not completely full in the picture.

    The description then says that the cards have never been handled.

    My question is this: if the cards were never handled...

    a.) How were they removed directly from an original vending box?

    b.) How does one know that there were exactly 413 NM/MT cards in the lot?

    c.) How did they pick out a sampling of cards to be graded (they picked out 11 cards..pretty much all stars and semi's..and they came back 3 PSA 9's and 8 PSA 8's.)? According to the lot description they felt compelled to submit a few card to PSA for corroboration.

    My definition of never handled is never touched by human hands after production/distribution.

    edited: syntax

  • murcerfanmurcerfan Posts: 2,426
    looks like the honeymoon is over.

    high comedy

    edited to add : scroll to this afternoons posts for a good laugh
  • Murcer-

    I saw that...should provide some good reading. I wondered why I have not seen Greg post over on the SGC boards in a while...

    2 message board heavyweights squaring off.

  • murcerfanmurcerfan Posts: 2,426
    I dunno..........maybe he got ejected from there too

    image
  • Funny stuff . . .
    image

    Heh© / My lawyers will be contacting all of you!™
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    soli Deo gloria
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