Is Coin Dealer Newsletter NUTS, CRAZY, and INSANE to rank ICG above PCGS?
Justhavingfun
Posts: 835 ✭
The April 9 Coin Dealer Newsletter ranked ICG #1 in value for sight-unseen slabs, at 83.92%. NGC ranked #2, at 83.56%. PCGS ranked #3, at 83.09%.
The 83.09% ranking for PCGS means that on the average, a PCGS slab sold sight unseen will pull 83.09% of the sight seen price.
It's totally inconceivable to me that knowledgeable coin collectors would pay more for an ICG slab than for a PCGS slab. When I started collecting Jefferson and Washington quarter proofs, I bought about a dozen ICG slabbed specimens. When I saw them, I almost threw up. Not a single coin lived up to my expectations for the grade. Several looked two points high to me. I could not return them because I travel a lot and when I got home to view them, the money back guarantee time period had expired. So I gave a few away as pretty baubles for neighboring kid coin collectors. I dumped the rest.
Later, when Mr. Wondercoin queried me about an ICG slabbed coin, I said I'd buy it if and only if he thought it would cross to PCGS at 2 POINTS LOWER. He thought it would. I bought it, and it did.
How can this dreck rank above PCGS?
Am I alone with this experience with ICG slabs? What's your experience? Who's nuts: Me or the Coin Dealer Newsletter?
And does anybody know how these rankings are compiled? Are they corruptible? Or manipulatable?
Thank and enjoy!
Just Having Fun!
The 83.09% ranking for PCGS means that on the average, a PCGS slab sold sight unseen will pull 83.09% of the sight seen price.
It's totally inconceivable to me that knowledgeable coin collectors would pay more for an ICG slab than for a PCGS slab. When I started collecting Jefferson and Washington quarter proofs, I bought about a dozen ICG slabbed specimens. When I saw them, I almost threw up. Not a single coin lived up to my expectations for the grade. Several looked two points high to me. I could not return them because I travel a lot and when I got home to view them, the money back guarantee time period had expired. So I gave a few away as pretty baubles for neighboring kid coin collectors. I dumped the rest.
Later, when Mr. Wondercoin queried me about an ICG slabbed coin, I said I'd buy it if and only if he thought it would cross to PCGS at 2 POINTS LOWER. He thought it would. I bought it, and it did.
How can this dreck rank above PCGS?
Am I alone with this experience with ICG slabs? What's your experience? Who's nuts: Me or the Coin Dealer Newsletter?
And does anybody know how these rankings are compiled? Are they corruptible? Or manipulatable?
Thank and enjoy!
Just Having Fun!
Jefferson nickels, Standing Libs, and US-Philippines rock
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
You have to read it carefully. All they are saying is that if the coin is ICG graded, you KNOW it is crap, so you pay crap prices. If it were not crap, it would be in a different holder.
ICG MS65: site seen price $100.00
ICG MS65: site unseen price $83.92
a different coin
NCG MS65: site seen price $200.00
NCG MS65: site unseen price $167.12
yet another different coin
PCGS MS65: site seen price $300.00
PCGS MS65: site unseen price $249.27
THESE THREE COINS ARE NOT THE SAME COINS, JUST THE SAME "GRADE"
Jim
I may be wrong but I don't think so. I have the Coin Dealer Newsletter in front of me and it says:
"A weekly comparison of certified coin bid levels relative to CDN sight-seen bid levels (as 100%)"
Now CDN sight-seen bid levels are "sight-seen wholesale prices for accurately graded U.S. Coins -- certified or raw."
Since it refers to comparisons with RAW coins, then the reference can't be a percentage of the ICG price. It's a percentage of the real value.
Now I can see NGC slabs comparing well with the PCGS ones. NGC has their act together and they're close to PCGS. On most series I prefer the PCGS slabs, but on a few, I think the NGC slabs are more valuable.
But the ICG slabs I've seen are unanimously dreck -- and in my opinion can't hold a candle to either NGC or PCGS slabs. Heck, I'm happy to buy ANACS slabs and have done quite well with them. But I rarely if ever will buy a ICG slab any more, after so many poor experiences.
Best wishes,
Just having fun!
I believe, at the time, CDN ranked ICG was the number one.
Then, ICG loosed the grading standards, IMO; don't know the reason. More coins were submitted to ICG. PCGS felt the pain and started to lower the grading standards. We could see many many early blue label PCGS coins were overgraded compared to today's standards. Those are the stories between summer 1997 to fall 1999.
When did CDN first even admit ICG existed??? About 9 months ago? Three plus years AFTER ICG got started??? I suspect this CDN comparative is from the first year ICG existed. At that time ICG was very good, in fact, very very good, very competitve with PCGS.
In fact, ICG at the time reminded me very much of the Hallmark grading service. Conservative truly PQ coins for the grade.
I have a ICG 1886-O MS-60 $1 that I bought two plus years ago that everyone here swore would have crossed to PCGS MS-62 or even MS-63.
From your comments and Oreville's following, it seems clear that ICG started off as a quality service. At some point, for whatever reason, they seemed to abandon the sound grading that you two are speaking of. Indeed, the one Standing Liberty Quarter I ever bought that was slabbed by ICG did cross two points lower at PCGS.
Thanks for the input.
Best wishes,
Just Having Fun!
The Standing Liberty Quarter I refered to crossed to PCGS 1 point down, not two.
My point's the same: my experience is that ICG slabs are one or more points overgraded, compared with PCGS. So how can their slabs sell at parity (or above parity) with PCGS slabs?
What's your experience?
Just Having Fun!
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