Come On PSA

MrRookie · April 18, 2004 10:54PM

Cy Young

murcerfan · April 18, 2004 11:11PM

no wait...........

"everybody is human and makes a mistake once in a while"

CON40 · April 18, 2004 11:18PM

Amazing! How does PSA make a mistake on Cy Young's identity on a flip? Apparently, this seller thinks it worth more with the mistake!

murcerfan · April 18, 2004 11:46PM

He should resubmit.
.........maybe he'll get an Honus Wagner next time.

MrRookie · April 19, 2004 2:20AM

I would rather have Cy's name on the flip but maybe it's just me. Also, why complain about it being a 4 cause it should really be a 3, just enjoy the 4 man.

Vincecarder · April 19, 2004 5:41AM

It took two graders to mislabel that card!

grilloj39 · April 19, 2004 7:24AM

I would cut PSA some slack on this one...the guy probably had a bridwell as well, but the two cards just got mixed up during the encapsulation phase is my guess. Mistakes happen sometimes.

GAI has mislabeled a card of mine before, I didn't have a problem with it; i just sent it back asking to be relabeled which they gladly did. I think the seller should have done the same.

qualitycards · April 19, 2004 7:43AM

GRILLO is right, that these mistakes happen occasionally to all grading companies. And since PSA and most others will fix it free and cover the shipping via registered mail back to the person, it costs them in the long run...jay

gemint · April 19, 2004 8:17AM

Don't blame the graders. These are usually mechanical errors caused at data entry. I've seen everything from 'MINT 7' to 1972's slabbed with a '1973' flip. I also think that's how cards with 90-10 centering get slabbed in 8 NQ holders (e.g., 1972 Bench that was circulating a few years back). If PSA concentrated on improving the reliability of their labeling, it would eliminate a majority of the gross defects we see.

murcerfan · April 19, 2004 8:31AM

yeah.....what does the P in PSA mean again ?......."Pretty-good-on-most-days" ??

If I made mistakes as often as PSA.....
........ I would have been out of business years ago, not to mention all the collapsed buildings and dead people.

edited to add: In my opinion, if Joe and PSA are going to continually trot out the "everybody makes mistakes" lame excuse, they should change the company name to something more appropriate.

schr1st · April 19, 2004 9:10AM

Just when you thought that they couldn't screw up any worse...

phreakydancin · April 19, 2004 9:41AM

<< I would cut PSA some slack on this one...the guy probably had a bridwell as well, but the two cards just got mixed up during the encapsulation phase is my guess. Mistakes happen sometimes. >>

That was my first instinct, but also leads me to believe there is a Bridwell 4 out there masquerading as a Young 3.

Stone193 · April 19, 2004 9:44AM

<< IT IS SLABBED A 4, BUT IT MOST LIKELY SHOULD BE GRADED A THREE ( THERE IS A MINOR BUT LONG BEND ACROSS THE CENTER OF THE CARD, >>

I am in agreement with Grillo, Jay, Gemint on this one - mistakes happen.
For me, and most noteworthy, is the honesty of the seller - he is paving the way to invite you to bid as if it were a 3 rather than a 4 - with all the crap going on with ebay, this is a breath of fresh air.
Mike

WinPitcher · April 19, 2004 10:38AM

< ...the guy probably had a bridwell as well,>

i don't think so as he states the Young card should be a 3....
had he had the bridwell it would have had Young's cert??
I do though agree that PSA should be given slack, as mistakes do happen.

Ruthfan · April 19, 2004 10:37PM

<< And since PSA and most others will fix it free and cover the shipping via registered mail back to the person, it costs them in the long run...jay >>

Yeah, that is mighty fine, but why should the customer have to pay for the shipping TO them to fix the card in the first place. I know this happens quite frequently more than it should and I just wonder if anyone has ever been compensated for the charges of shipping the card back to PSA. It's PSA's problem and I don't think the customer should have to put out any more money to fix PSA's screw ups.

envoy98 · April 20, 2004 1:17AM

Exactly, why should they have to kick out more $$$, another thing too is the "turnaround" is not guaranteed. So I hope you weren't counting on that card for a specific show in a week, you probably aren't going to see it.

And one thing I think you guys might be overlooking is this guy saying that it's a 3 is probably a pretty good guess since he probably has a Bridwell in a PSA 3 holder labeled Cy Young, they were probably just stacked wrong when they were getting slabbed and ended up in the opposite holders. Well that's my conspiracy theory anyway.

It is still nice that the seller points it out though, I definitely agree with that. I would be PO'd if I got it and saw a fat crease through the middle. Then I'd probably be on this board complaining about the inconsistencies of PSA, and how my 3's looks better than this 4.

qualitycards · April 20, 2004 1:46AM

<< but why should the customer have to pay for the shipping TO them to fix the card in the first place >>

All of the leading grading companies that fix their mistakes at no charge, NONE compensate for the shipping costs to get to them.
I counter that by including a mech error card that I have w/ my next order of submissions, or I hand it to them in person at a show that we both are attending...jay

murcerfan · April 20, 2004 2:31AM

Ivan at PSA recently told me the turnaround for Mechanical Error invoices was around 4-6 weeks.

hey, not bad.

koby · April 20, 2004 2:32AM

at least its free

murcerfan · April 20, 2004 2:45AM

That would assume the customer's cost to send the boxes of do-overs along with his time, hassle, and effort has no value.
this may be the collective viewpoint, but it is not mine.

envoy98 · April 20, 2004 2:50AM

Yeah, sorry we screwed up, tell ya what... pay for registered insured mail to send it back to us and in a month or three we'll ship it back to you. Sorry about that. But in the meantime, don't forget you can still enter it in the set registry once the cert # comes up!

Gee, thanks PSA you guys rock!

jrinck · April 20, 2004 3:35AM

Here are the certs above and below this Young/Bridwell card:

11790638 - DOESN'T EXIST IN DATABASE
11790639 - DOESN'T EXIST IN DATABASE
11790640 - Lajoie - T206 - PSA 4
11790641 - Clarke - T206 - PSA 6
11790642 - Mathewson - T206 - PSA 3
11790643 - Cobb - T206 - PSA 2
11790644 - Bridwell (really Cy Young) - T206 - PSA 4
11790645 - Steinfeldt - T206 - PSA 5
11790646 - Dick Alban - 1952 BOWMAN LARGE - PSA 6
11790647 - Andy Robustelli - 1952 BOWMAN LARGE - PSA 6

Looks like this could be a case AGAINST them accidentally switching cards in the slabbing room. It's clearly a much more sad mistake than that.

envoy98 · April 20, 2004 3:47AM

So even worse, the Cobb is actually a 2 and he's passing it off as a 3. And I gave this guy the benefit of the doubt? My mistake.

MrRookie · April 20, 2004 3:56AM

no wonder he didn't send it back to PSA for correction

I guess I would rather have a Cobb t206 PSA 4 (wrong name on flip) than a Cobb t206 PSA 2 (correct name on flip)

but anyway I wouldn't want to have to pay to ship/insure the card back to PSA after I already paid them to grade it correctly the first time around

jrinck · April 20, 2004 4:11AM

It is clear PSA does not want to set up an RMA type of system that will automatically reimburse return shipping. It's not a hard thing to do, you just have to want to do it.

robstar · April 20, 2004 4:38AM

<< That would assume the customer's cost to send the boxes of do-overs along with his time, hassle, and effort has no value.
this may be the collective viewpoint, but it is not mine. >>

I couldn't agree more. If PSA has a guarantee in place for providing free grades for turnaround times which are not met, why then should this not extend to error's such as these. The number of free grades would depend on original service level and value of card. I can see mistakes like this occasionally happening with a common, but not with a T206 Cy Young.
Also, 4 - 6 weeks turnaround for their own mistakes is unacceptable. Fixing problems such as these should be priority #1.

It's called " GOODWILL "

Rob...

mafoliq · April 21, 2004 6:49AM

HELLO EVERYONE,
I AM THE PSA 4 CY YOUNG/ AL BRIDWELL LISTER. SOMEONE DIRECTED TO THIS SITE, THANKS, I DIDN"T KNOW WHAT FUN I'VE BEEN MISSING! ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED TO ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS THAT HAVE ARISEN CONCERNING THIS CARD. FIRST, I HAD A LOCAL HOBBY STORE SUBMIT THIS CARD AND A FEW OTHERS. IT WAS THE FIRST TIME I HAD EVER SUBMITTED ANYTHING TO ANY GRADING COMPANY. IT TOOK NEARLY 2 MONTHS TO GET THE CARD BACK. I WAS NOT PLANNING TO SELL THIS CARD AS I AM TRYING TO PUT THIS SET TOGETHER, BUT AS I DISCOVERED IT WAS MISLABELED, I THOUGHT SOMEONE MIGHT COLLECT THIS SORT OF THING (I CAN ALWAYS GET ANOTHER CY YOUNG) AND IT MAY BE WORTH MORE AS A ERROR. I DIDN'T RELISH THE IDEA OF SENDING IT BACK AND WAIT AGAIN AND I HAVE NOT FOUND OUT WHAT PSA'S RETURN POLICY IS. IF IT DOESN'T SELL, I WILL PROBABLY JUST KEEP IT.
I DO NOT HAVE OR SUBMITTED THE BRIDWELL CARD, OR KNOW IF THERE IS ONE OUT THERE WITH A CY YOUNG LABEL ATTACHED TO IT.
I STATED THAT IT APPEARED TO BE A THREE INSTEAD OF A FOUR BASED ON MY OWN UNDERSTADING OF GRADING AND THE FACT THAT IF PSA COULD MISLABEL A CY YOUNG THEN THEY COULD CERTAINLY MISGRADE ONE. I WASN'T PARTICULARLY PLEASED WITH THE OTHER GRADES MY CARDS RECEIVED AS TWO OF THEM WERE VERY HARSHLY GRADED. ( AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE COBB) IF SOMEONE PURCHASES THIS CARD, I WANTED THEM TO BE AWARE OF THIS CREASE AND I HOPE SOMEONE WOULD BE JUST AS CONSIDERATE IF I WERE THE BUYER.

Stone193 · April 21, 2004 7:07AM

<< So even worse, the Cobb is actually a 2 and he's passing it off as a 3. And I gave this guy the benefit of the doubt? My mistake. >>

Envoy
I'm confused - what does the Cobb have to do with this? This gentleman was selling a Cy Young mislabeled as a Bridwell. His statement about the Cobb - many guys have stated in their auction that they thought the card looked better than the grade - no different than saying - this is a strong psa 2 or it looks like a 3 to me. Not trying to start something - just wondering - what do ya think?

mafoliq
Welcome. I think I emailed you about this card? Thanx for coming on - unless I missed something from reading this - you were selling a psa 4 which you clarified that it may be a psa 3 - and a mislabelled holder - if correct - I would like to Commend you for your honesty and people reading the auction site will appreciate it. Thanx and I hope you stay around.
Mike

edit for 3rd grade grammar and clarity

envoy98 · April 21, 2004 8:15AM

I was referring to the earlier post.

11790643 - Cobb - T206 - PSA 2
11790644 - Bridwell (really Cy Young) - T206 - PSA 4

I was commending at first, then someone else went and looked up the few cards ahead of, and before the Bridwell/Young cert#. It appears there was a Cy Young graded, and it graded a 2. My point was, being the conspiracy theorist that I am, was that the seller was implying it was a 3 when in fact he knows it is a 2 because the Bridwell is slabbed in the Cy Young holder. Is it possible the other Cy Young listed is in fact a Cy Young? Absolutely... Is it probable, you be the judge. I certainly respect the sellers honesty, it is totally commendable, simply put, my statement was in effect reinforcing, even if printed before, the other post that showed a Cy Young label/cert probably off the same invoice as the Bridwell.

It might actually have a Cobb in it and PSA maybe just made a mistake on that one card, seems to me it would be a mistake affecting two cards and that's all I was saying.

It's cool the seller came on here too. I wasn't trying to start anything either, just making an observation, that's all.

mafoliq · April 21, 2004 8:05PM

Hi again,

The only cards I sent in were the Mathewson, Lajoie, Clarke, Cobb, and Young. The Mathewson, and the Cobb received the technical grades I expected. The Clarke was also about right, I was disapointed with the Lajoie. The only mistake was the Cy Young card. I don't mean to complain about psa because people do make mistakes, but if it were my business, I would certainly want to satisfy a customer before the card went on ebay or became a conversation piece which inevitably brings into question their ability to perform their core function. A clearly stated return policy on the PSA's website offering some free grades would be nice. it would cost them next to nothing, be a great gesture of good will and restore some confidence. I probably would not have questioned my other grades as closely if the Young/ Bridwell card had been labeled correctly. In my business, I am held accountable as well as all my subcontractors to a fairly high standard. Anyway, that's my two commons.

mafoliq · April 21, 2004 8:09PM

hi mike,

thanks for inviting me on, great site.
i have learned a few things from these threads already

martin

Stone193 · April 21, 2004 9:54PM

<< It's cool the seller came on here too. I wasn't trying to start anything either, just making an observation, that's all. >>

Envoy - thanks for clarifying your position - I enjoy your posts and you are very knowledgeable - you've got my vote.
Martin
Sometimes things happen for a reason - yes we may beat up on someone with respect to ebay - IMO, it is not malicious - but done in the spirit of "informing" each other of what is out there - we are in the process of trying to get ebay to rid itself of some very overt crooks who are selling trimmed cards holdered by Pro and Gem - so your involvement wasn't personal and inadvertent with respect to the investigation. Sometimes auctions are brought up for the shear entertainment of 'how' they are presented.
So, the point is, if you stay around, I think you will get a lot out of the exchange both here and on the vintage side for sales and trading. Good luck. It's off to work.
Mike

envoy98 · April 21, 2004 11:11PM

Thanks Mike. I have been reading on these boards a lot since about September but just recently felt compelled enough to actually start posting. Same with the BGS boards. I try to stay away from the posts where they either get way OT or get into flaming one person or another. It definitely seems to happen more on the BGS boards, but I've seen a fair share of it here as well.

At any rate, hopefully if Martin makes a polite phone call to PSA something can get resolved, but if it's anything like my experiences dealing with their customer service reps.... I'd just sell it on ebay (potentially for substantially less $$$) and let someone else deal with getting it reholdered. ie. Incurring the expense, the wait time, shipping.

Thanks again for the kind words, and I hope to participate as much as possible and keep these boards a great place for info. Especially with respect to bad seeds on ebay. Through diligent investigation, it appears as though Martin is not one of the bad seeds. Kudos!

Aknot · April 21, 2004 11:19PM

HE's A WITCH
How can you tell Hes a witch?

Just kidding.

I find it hard to believe PSA would not correct this on their dime and in a timely manner. Its not like it has (or does it) to be regraded. Maybe it is in fear of damaging the card in the "uncapsulating" process?

Speaking of which all my Callahans came back as 10's!!!! OK Im just kidding again.

Stone193 · April 22, 2004 1:45PM

<< Speaking of which all my Callahans came back as 10's!!!! OK Im just kidding again. >>

Aknot
You're a good guy - may all your dealings be PSA 10's!
Mike

Come On PSA

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