Does PCGS currently provide an explanation with a DNC?

dan1ecu

Do they?

Thanks,

Dan

Blade

This is a sore spot with me. PCGS wrote a letter about a year ago - when they changed the pricing structure and added the Presidential Review - that they would provide explanations for DNCs. However, I have had 3 DNCs and have called not received an explanation. Followed up on 2 of them and got generic answers that made me think they really didn't document the situation with my coin. You should tee this up with HRH in the weekly Q&A.

foodude

No. While it would be nice to get an explanation, I'd rather the graders spend their time grader, than giving reasons why a coin did not cross. I usually have a pretty idea of why it didn't cross.

Placid

Do they still give reasons on bodybags? If so why shouldn't they for dnc's its the same price.

DennisH

Starting last year, David Hall has repeatedly said that providing specific reasons for DNCs is a goal of theirs in the future.

But it's apparently not a hot priority, so we are still left to guess and not receive full measure for our grading dollar until that day arrives.

Placid

I used to get tags on dnc's they were red with a list of reasons and little boxes that the graders would check and then stick them on the slab. They stopped doing it to save time. So why not stop giving reasons on bodybags as well?

Bochiman

Graders shouldn't waste their time with typing in explanations.....that being said, explanations should still be given.
So, PCGS should hire a minimum wage person or two, or temps, and have them in the grading room and have them "cater" to the graders and do the actual menial work in relating the DNC reasons.

I think that would work, it shouldn't detract from the graders much at all, and it is very cost effective.

Placid

They didn't type anything before. It was a tag with a list of reasons on it. All the grader did was check the box next to the reason.

jbsteven

ngc did on my last designation review. Little sticky note with an explanation. I paid $10 for the designation review and it did not upgrade but there was a small note. I bet it took all of 10 seconds to write the note.

PCGS please take note: this leads to happy customers wheter they are newbies or dealers.

IrishMike

If would be nice if they had or took the time to do it. It would help educate the submitters. It would seem to me to be a reasonable business expense if you are out their in the market place advertising for collectors to sign up for your service. On my last submission I did get a piece of paper with a box checked "cleaned" on the coin they bodybagged, but that was over a year ago. It was a bust half that neither I, the dealer who sold it to me and two other dealers could see the cleaning. The dealer purchased the coin back and resold it as it was a beautiful bust half. I would have kept it but decided that I didn't have the time nor the inclination to educate myself in the series. In any regards it was the safe play on their part to bodybag it.

Conder101

I don't believe PCGS uses the checklist tag anymore that gives some clues as to why it was boby bagged but the 9X code before the / on the serial number gives the same information. The codes are:

90 Not Genuine
91 Artificial Color
92 Cleaning
93 Planchet Flaw
94 Altered Surfaces
95 Scratch / Rim Dent
96 Refund - No Service
97 Environmental Damage
98 Damage
99 PVC

BAJJERFAN

I didn't get an explanation on my last DNC.

astrorat

Why would PCGS provide an explanation? It takes away time and resources from activities that generate income. My guess is that IF PCGS includes the service in the future, it will cost extra. They are fully aware that regardless whether or not they give a reason for a DNC, people will still submit coins to them. Until people decrease their submissions, why would PCGS change any of their activities in that area? I am not being cynical, it's economics 101. Where PCGS (and NGC) have expanded their services is where it has meant expanding their markets or creating new markets (e.g. registry sets, multicoin holders, variety designations). They are a business, not your buddy.

Now with that said, if EVERYBODY who got a DNC called PCGS for an explanation, they would institute some sort of "free service", such as a checklist, since all those phone calls would tie up their resources (phones and people).

Lane

badger

I'm new at grading and rely on PCGS when trying to cross coins from NGC. If PCGS would provide their estimate of grade, I could tune into their expectations. It would allow me to make better purchasing decisions when looking at NGC coins. For now, I don't know if the proof coins missed on grade, cameo or both.

NoGvmnt

"Why would PCGS provide an explanation? It takes away time and resources from activities that generate income."



Astrorat, this is not true, When a coin is body bagged or not crossed PCGS is actually saving time that would have been spent grading and encapsulating the coin. So, as the customer has paid for a service, if that service is not provided (ie:the coin is not slabbed) but the customer is still charged the same fee, the customer at the very least deserves a reason.

Simply stated, the time PCGS saves by not grading and encapsulating the coin should be utilized providing a reason for not doing so. As a matter of fact, it would probably take less time to provide a reason for not grading and encapsulating the coin than it takes for grading and encapsulating the coin.

Jim

astrorat

I understand what you are saying, but my point is that once a coin has not crossed, it is removed from the grading process. It is done and any additional information requires additional resources. Any additional work would cost PCGS or other TPG money. I am not saying that the customer does not deserve an explanation, since as you rightly pointed out, they paid a fee. But there is no motivation on the part of the TPG to give an explanation unless it affects their bottom line.

Lane

BAJJERFAN

I mean really how much time does it take to put a checkmark in a little square box? If a coin does not cross at grade X I would like them to tell me at what grade they would cross it in case I wanted to resubmit and have it crossed at the lower grade.

astrorat

<< <i>I mean really how much time does it take to put a checkmark in a little square box? If a coin does not cross at grade X I would like them to tell me at what grade they would cross it in case I wanted to resubmit and have it crossed at the lower grade. >>



Yes you are correct, it takes little time to mark a box. But what you are asking is that they grade the coin anyway, just not put it in their holder. That is not the same service as "will it cross at some minimum grade?". Also, it may not cross due to being counterfeit, altered surface, damaged, etc. How would they "grade" that piece? How long of an explanation would you like if it was AT or counterfeit? Would you be satisfied with just a check box or would you like a brief explanation? How brief, a few words, a few sentences, perhaps a paragraph or two? My point is that when you tread in to such areas the information often needed is more than a check box can provide.

Have you ever been to a show and handed a coin to the fine folks at ANACS? I have been there when folks has received opinions of "questionable authenticity". Not once did the person simple say, "Oh, thanks." and walk away. They usually asked for an expanation that was in more detail than simply checking a box. A TPG cannot provide this level of detail routinely unless the customer is willing to pay for the service (above the normal price). Again, Econ 101.

With a crossover, what you are REALLY saying is that you do not want to crack out the coin just in case it is not what you want it to be (e.g. won't upgrade, is not NT, etc.). You want the best of all worlds, be put into a "better holder", but if not "worthy", keep the coin in the original holder. Not that this is a bad approach, but the submitter is hedging.

Another questino is, what's in it for a TPG to give you the reason why it won't cross? If they do not provide an explanation, will it stop you from submitting coins to be crossed? If not, then the point is mute. If so, then let the TPG know and perhaps they will provide that courtesy in order to ensure future business. It's about money and not about education.

Lane

BAJJERFAN

In order to cross a coin they HAVE to grade it. When you pay for the crossover service you are paying for a package deal and an opinion of grade is included in the package.
So if I submit a coin in NGC 50 and it does not cross or upgrade why can't they say if you want to we will reholder at ef45 or whatever the new grade. Resubmit the coin with the $5 reholder fee, this certificate and return postage. I paid for a grade and I deserve a grade even if its NOT the one I want.
If I send in a crossover I may accept a lower grade but I want to have that choice BEFORE the coin gets cracked out. This whole thing aint rocket science like yer makin it out to be and it wouldn't necessarily need the grader's time to get it done. Some assistant could do that.

Russ

<< <i>Why would PCGS provide an explanation? >>



Because they made the commitment to do so. If they didn't intend to follow through with that promise, it should never have been made.

Russ, NCNE

astrorat

Of course it is not rocket science, it's basic economics. Yes they, by definition, have to grade the coin but they are ONLY providing an opinion if it will cross (at all, or at a specific grade). They are giving the answer that the submitter requested. If the submitter wanted it graded, then it should be submitted as such. There is no incentive for them to give an explanation as it will only lead to more work and lots of arguments.

Let's reverse the question a bit, why do the board members think the major companies don't provide an expanation?

Lane

BAJJERFAN

Maybe they could offer the crossover plus service.
I send in a coin NGC 55 and ask to cross at equal or higher grade. They email back and say it won't make 55 but we will cross it at 53 if you want. They could charge an extra $5 for this service.
I would likely take the AU53 but I would be unhappy if I sent in a 55 to cross at any grade and got back a 40.

See my point?

astrorat

Absolutely! I think it would be a valuable service and would be welcome by submitters.

My point was that unless there was an additional fee or the company felt they would loose submission, the TPG's will not go the extra mile.

Lane

P.S. I have been enjoying the conversation!

BAJJERFAN

Well my initial point is/was that it really should require no extra effort on their part to go the extra mile as things are now. It seems to me that there should be some way on their puters that when a coin doesn't cross, the submission could be flagged for special attention and some CS person could follow up and take care of the details.

astrorat

Gotcha, you were arguing effort and I was arguing reason. I agree that it really should take little effort, but they really have no reason to do it without some benefit to them (e.g. additional income or market advantage).

Lane

BAJJERFAN

Well it would be one less coin in a NGC holder and one more in a PCGS holder. Also I think it might encourage more crossover submissions. Personally I would be reluctant to keep submitting the same coin over and over.