Have you ever heard me say that prices for monster toned coins have hit absurd levels? Well, that a

ANACONDA

(Please see my last post where i reverse my thoughts. Hey, i'm allowed to do that!)

I just got my Numismatic News - April 20th. An Oregon in 67 sold for $69,000. Someone is gonna take a bath on that coin some day. The guy who sold it is probably having an ectasy that can only be exceeded by private time with his wife. This is truly insane. I don't care if the coin looks better than the color photo on the front page. It surely is a monster BUT $69,000????????????????????????????

The coin sheets for around $200. Maybe it's time for the fellow who bought "the Roanoke" to part with it.

kranky

You can catch up on some of the discussion here.

Board member MS68 is the new owner.

MrEureka

Anaconda - Welcome to The Society of Numismatic Dinosaurs!

mrdq

I agree Adrian. That train is going to crash someday and I'm glad I won't be on it.

ANACONDA

So, David Schweitz bought it. Congratulations. I think i would have made it a private bid or kept the purchase of it for that price a confidential matter.

ER

That coin looks disgusting. JMO.

LAWMAN

I hear that whistle, comin' down the track. . . yes, it's the sounding of a coming TRAINWRECK!!!!!!!!

Get out of the way, get back to basics (dansco, waite raymond and other raw albums; decently graded, truly rare slabbed coins) before you wind up like the dog in the blues song.

(For those of you who are blues-challenged, the song is about a dog that looses a piece of its tail on the traintracks from an oncoming train, runs away, but then, goes back to the same track and looses his head from another train coming by, when he was 'only looking for a little piece of tail.')

ddink

All commems look ugly IMO; just think of the nice coin you could buy with that kind of money =(

mrearlygold

The coin sheets for around $200.




You mean 2K. At 2K it's a bargain. Most Oregons in 66 and 67 holders are not what I would consider accurately graded Oregons. That said, even the plastic is tough in those grades.

I'm looking for them BTW.

TP

ANACONDA

I don't think the market can collapse like other markets. There are just no sheets for originally toned monsters.

It's like the market for pickeled lamb's tongues. No sheets.

Now, that doesn't mean that the interest won't wane - as prices rise, people find other areas more appealing. Less people enter the market for toned coins and prices naturally soften - but a collapsing market - i don't see that happening.

I would love for the market to collapse. I would lose money initially but would pour significant resources into the area simply because i love them. Want to own them. Sleep with them. Hug them. Say romantic words to them.

Sorry.

i'm back.

Things are better.

But they are cool. Doncha think?

mrearlygold

69K is not realistic though.

TP

coingame2000

Adrian,

I was the underbidder at $57,500 and would have been thrilled to own it -- AGAIN! Yup, I bought it from John Highfill for my personal collection in November 1984 for $1,000 (bid was about $250 then). A short time later Eugene Spier (one of my favorite clients of all time) spent $350 on a Persian cat for my wife for Christmas and then put the pressure on me to sell him the coin. I couldn't turn him down and sold it to him for $1,100. I subsequently arranged for the sale of his silver commemorative and Peace dollar collections at the the Mid America 1987 FUN Sale wherein the Oregon realized $5,100. I never saw it again until I received my Superior catalog and nearly had a stroke. While I was looking at the image, my wife was peeking over my shoulder and said -- honey, isn't that the icon coin on our website? I said yup, it was my old Oregon and I was determined to get it back. As you know I didn't, but as I have written many times over the years in numerous articles and publications...that Oregon is the neatest, coolest coin I ever owned! In fact several prominent dealers came up to me after the sale and said that it was the most beautifully toned commem (of any issue) that they had ever seen. Is it really worth $69,000? All I can say is that it sure was worth $66,125 to me and that ain't far off.

Mike

tsacch

can someone post a pic of it or link me up...........

I would be happy to own one of Anaconda's least expensive toned monsters........

tsacch

or middle ground ones............

Coinosaurus

Wow, even Adrian is starting to get scared off.......if that ain't a signal I don't know what is.......

RegistryCoin

Wow !
ps. Maybe now pcgs, etal, will stop giving an extra grade point for (dis)coloration, and stick to a more sensible and consistant technical grading scale, letting the market determine the "extra" value for toning... Thank gawd!

FrattLaw

I wonder if Adrian's post would have had the same tone (no pun intended) if he had been the seller of the Oregon?

Wow, from a $1000 in 1984 to a $69,000 in 2004. Not a bad investment.

Michael

Crackout

Here's a link: Superior Galleries

jeffnpcb

OUCH!!!! Extremely nice strike, but a little steep. When are the non-graded coins going to hit the market?

ElectricEye

I love the headline Superior has regarding that coin...



<< <i>How We Sold A $2200 Coin For An Astonishing $69,000! >>

ddink

<< <i>Wow, from a $1000 in 1984 to a $69,000 in 2004. Not a bad investment. >>



According to this article, had you invested $1000 in Cisco in 1990 and sold late in 1999, your initial $1000 investment would have turned into $1.64 million dollars. I think this proves Adrian's point admirably: $1000 to $69k in 20 years--maybe that *is* a sign the market has gone a little wild.

I agree with Adrian--I'd be sorry for the present toned collectors, but I really hope toned prices decline some so I can afford to buy the really nice ones!

jbsteven

<< <i>but I really hope toned prices decline some so I can afford to buy the really nice ones! >>



there are many more people with the same idea. This is why nicely toned coins will stay priced about where they are now.

BAJJERFAN

if we keep promoting gloom n doom prices mite drop.

cosmicdebris

RegistryCoin

I won't speak for Adrian, nor David, but I think that "bashing" is a bit harsh. Let's just say he has had a change of heart...
Personally, I think Adrian has come to his senses, and he continues to garner my top respect, but I still feel that David has been the TOP numismatist of the millinium, so far.

RegistryCoin

<< <i>With all due respect then what is was he doing? >>

Adjusting, and relating his individual (valued) opinion due to perceived current market conditions, imho.

IrishMike

Pick myself up off'n floor, Adrian can't believe you said that.

Anyway this hobby would be dull if we all agreed on everything.

Oldnewbie

Wow, reading this thread made me realize how much I don't know about this "hobby" and how much I'll never know.

tradedollarnut

The price paid for that coin is irrelevant. The value it adds to the set immense. David understands what many don't or won't. He'll do just fine on the set ... even if any specific coin ends up not appreciating as quickly as the rest.

nOoBiEeE

Amazing coin , 'nuff said...

roadrunner

One point that I'm surprised has not been mentioned if that if a purely unknown collector purchased that coin and resubmitted it to PCGS, I would submit that the odds of getting an MS69 would be nil.

David no doubt has a great rep (and eye) in this hobby and his bold purchase of the coin, along with any references to it being a "MS 69" coin (from him or others), will certainly help his cause more than the average guy. I don't believe me or anyone else could expect to get an MS69 on such a coin. But after reading these threads, I'm convinced it will be in an MS69 holder while in MS68's possession.
The fact that 2 top dealers bid the coin to that level surely helps the cause. Had 2 unknowns bid the coin to that level with no dealers support cast, the odds of a heavenly grade would be just that....heavenly. just my 2 cents.

roadrunner

northcoin

The Twilight Zone.

There is a place and there is time where what was once a coin has transcended space and reality - what was once a coin is now art and we are in The Twilight Zone.

ANACONDA

"The fact that 2 top dealers bid the coin to that level surely helps the cause."

That is a good point. I quite frankly don't know David Schweitz. I have met him. He seems like a nice guy. He sells coins to other guys i know and they tell me he is possessed of snap. In fact, one guy who has spent major bucks said that he only buys coins from three people, David, Ron and that snake dude. AND I have not seen the coin. I hear something.

Wait a minute......it's a little bit fuzzy.....some static......i think it's.....wait......it's God......he says the coin will get you some leaven.....no......he says that coin will get you into heaven! What.....a coin that will get you into .......Heaven????? I don't believe it....wait.....it was God!! I'm sure of it!!!!

Awesome!! A coin that will get you into heaven!!!!!

Well, i have changed my mind. Obviously David knew something i didn't. The coin will get you into heaven! Unbelievable!!

Damn! I just realized that i just screwed up! Heaven for just 69K!! Damn!!!!!!!!

Whowuddaknown!!

ANACONDA

In all seriousness.....David is right at least in part.....IT'S ONLY MONEY!!

It is in fact only money.

Money isn't everything.

He obviously has a bunch of it. People don't pay 69K for a coin if they're eating only beans and cornbread. Ya know.

He isn't building that commem set as an investment. He's building it because he wants to challenge himself and HE LOVES COINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love coins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You love coins!!!!!!!!!!!! We all love coins!!!!!!!!!!!!

He wants to spend 69K on a coin that will drop your socks......so what's all the commotion about!!!!!!!!!! He's loaded, he wanted it and he bought it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I seriously doubt he's sitting there thinking "Wow.....i really messed up.............i'm such an idiot.............I WANT MY MOMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!"

No, he's sitting there in front of his plasm screen TV, with that coin in his pocket, and every time he goes into the kitchen he takes it out of his pocket and holds it under the lights underneath his kitchen cabinets and says "DAMN, I WONDER HOW IT GOT THIS NICE.........I CAN'T WAIT TO THROW IT MY CASE AT THE SHOW TOMORROW AND DROP EVERYONE'S SOCKS!!!!!!!!! And he will do that. And God will look down and he will say "It is good."

adrian

RegistryCoin

More power to those who take the initiative...

ANACONDA

And he will make a tiny photo of it and put it at the bottom of his posts like Tradedollarnut, because he is proud of it, like we are proud of our coins - as we should be - and we will all come to conclude that money isn't everything. And we should look at the money we spend on the things we spend it on, for in the end, it should be pleasure that we should seek in the ways that we choose, so i have obviously changed my mind.

We are here on the earth but a short time and while coins are not the end all and the be all, whether something is a good investment or not depends on the reward we seek. That sounds kinda gooshie, but isn't it the truth?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

David Schweitz, owner of the finest commem known to man, to wit:

JadeRareCoin

Geeeeesh. Unbelievable.

If you want to torture the new owner: Tie him to a chair in front of a card table. The table would have only a jar of Jewel Luster on top with the Oregon suspending on the end of a string attached a pulley that is attached to the owner's big toe. His legs would be extended in front of him, elevated above the floor. The lower his legs get, the closer the coin gets to the Jewel Luster. As he fatigues......there goes the color and $60,000.

(I think it's time for me to go to sleep)

ANACONDA

You are creative. I like that.

ANACONDA

We all have our moments of insanity.

ER

<< <i>Geeeeesh. Unbelievable.

If you want to torture the new owner: Tie him to a chair in front of a card table. The table would have only a jar of Jewel Luster on top with the Oregon suspending on the end of a string attached a pulley that is attached to the owner's big toe. His legs would be extended in front of him, elevated above the floor. The lower his legs get, the closer the coin gets to the Jewel Luster. As he fatigues......there goes the color and $60,000.

(I think it's time for me to go to sleep) >>


You mean a blast white one would cost 9K?

JadeRareCoin

ER, it would be worth $9,000 due to it's illustrious past and pedigree. The new slab would read: "Previously Monster Toned" or something like that. It still would never be worth as much as a Norweb Oregon, however.

michael

coingame2000
Senior Member

Posts: 342
Joined: Nov 2001
Thursday April 15, 2004 3:50 PM (NEW!)



Adrian,

I was the underbidder at $57,500 and would have been thrilled to own it -- AGAIN! Yup, I bought it from John Highfill for my personal collection in November 1984 for $1,000 (bid was about $250 then). A short time later Eugene Spier (one of my favorite clients of all time) spent $350 on a Persian cat for my wife for Christmas and then put the pressure on me to sell him the coin. I couldn't turn him down and sold it to him for $1,100. I subsequently arranged for the sale of his silver commemorative and Peace dollar collections at the the Mid America 1987 FUN Sale wherein the Oregon realized $5,100. I never saw it again until I received my Superior catalog and nearly had a stroke. While I was looking at the image, my wife was peeking over my shoulder and said -- honey, isn't that the icon coin on our website? I said yup, it was my old Oregon and I was determined to get it back. As you know I didn't, but as I have written many times over the years in numerous articles and publications...that Oregon is the neatest, coolest coin I ever owned! In fact several prominent dealers came up to me after the sale and said that it was the most beautifully toned commem (of any issue) that they had ever seen. Is it really worth $69,000? All I can say is that it sure was worth $66,125 to me and that ain't far off.

Mike

-------------------------
Buying and selling superb quality U.S. coins for 30+ years with an emphais on MONSTER toned coins from many different series and eras. Quality and eye appeal are number ONE! Please visit my website @ www.numisvision.com


======================================================================

tradedollarnut
Expert Collector

Posts: 3665
Joined: Oct 2001
Thursday April 15, 2004 7:59 PM (NEW!)



The price paid for that coin is irrelevant. The value it adds to the set immense. David understands what many don't or won't. He'll do just fine on the set ... even if any specific coin ends up not appreciating as quickly as the rest.

-------------------------

northcoin

I return to my prior observation that that is a piece of art, not a coin. Whether it achieved those brilliant rainbow tones through some accelerated process or by pure random chance is less important than the final result. It is stunning. I wonder how many here would welcome the opportunity to secure a high quality poster sized photographic print of David's coin-art to hang on their wall?

tsacch

I say crack it out and resubmit it to PCI and go for an MS70

USAROK

69K is nearly as much as I make in a year, but I can easily see how one would be willing to pay that much for the coin. There are those who think I'm crazy for spending as much as I have on my collection, but what matters to me is that I'm happy with the coins and I suspect that is how David feels about this coin. Meanwhile, since I didn't have 69K+ to try and win the Oregon I'll just have to content myself with looking at the images and dreaming about how it would feel to be the owner.

pontiacinf

There are just no sheets for originally toned monsters.

problem here is it isnt original, its AT, a point you totally missed.

jbsteven

<< <i>problem here is it isnt original, its AT, a point you totally missed. >>

Weiss

People who collect toners don't collect coins.

jbsteven

<< <i>People who collect toners don't collect coins. >>

ANACONDA

"problem here is it isnt original, its AT, a point you totally missed. "

pontiacinf - you again whisper for attention.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>It still would never be worth as much as a Norweb Oregon, however. >>